Use the drop-down boxes above to navigate through the Website  
Return to Reasoning List
 

Here is a link to this page:
http://www.jah-rastafari.com/forum/message-view.asp?message_group=5944&start_row=31


Ganja Alternative

1 - 1011 - 2021 - 3031 - 4041 - 5051 - 6061 - 68
Time Zone: EST (New York, Toronto)
Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 1/9/2015 5:28:39 PM
Reply

I wouldn't call hallucinations a mystical experience. Rasta is no crack head. LIFE we chant. From an ital perspective we deal with the realm of reality. Why would a RASTAMAN want to falsely alter their senses including and especially that of what is real and what is not. Burn all illusion! When long terms effects include hallucinating while not even taking da drug is a no brainer for I man.

No greater insight than looking into I self and Man no use hallucinations for that. Next thing man end up as schizophrenic blaming western society provisions for mental health.

Show me a Rasta camp which encourage such. If Rasta is about culture one would have to show me how this is Rasta culture.


Messenger: RAS NATE Sent: 1/9/2015 5:58:54 PM
Reply

Yes,the long term effects of mescaline may be a prolongued mental state similar to paranoid schizophrenia.However it can usually only affect those who were already diagnosed previously as mentally ill.
The same thing goes for marijuana,as it is said to cause psychosis in those who were already meantally ill beneath the surface.This doesn't mean that simply because of this,InI will discard the herb,right..?

Crack cocaine is again something completely different and cannot be compared to peyote because cocaine itself can only be created by adding chemical liquid and not otherwise.On the other hand,simply chewing a coca leaf would not have the affects or the harm whatsoever wich crack or just cocaine bring.

Rasta is no crackhead and LIFE we promote,I agree.
And I am not saying all RasTafarI must start using peyote or anything else.Even whether to smoke weed or not is a free choice to make by every Rasta individually yes I.

But I will not label certain indegineous people as crackheads or schizophrenic beacuse they use peyote in spiritual rituals for the right reasons,just because Babylon has labeled peyote a drug as it has marijuana.To many people ,all the substances Babylon proclaims a drug are in the same category.Wich makes herb smoking Rasta people into schizophrenic crackheads etc..to people who don't want to think twice.

Haile Selassie
Menen InI


Messenger: Humble one Sent: 1/10/2015 3:02:09 AM
Reply

I agree with Ras Nate.

Don't get me wrong; having heard the true extent of it's power I certainly DO NOT recommend this if what you are looking for is a mild meditative tea.

JAH made the peyote cactus. Do you think he didn't know what he was doing? Chemical drugs are very different because these were not made by jah.

Babylon also says that cannabis turns you "psychotic". I would rather say that it brings a person back to reality. Babylon are the one that are not in their right minds.

Again, it is completely your choice as to whether to take it or not. For example, it would do you no harm to never take it at all. I completely agree that if one wants to take it necessary precautions must be taken, as it's psychedelic properties are in a different league to cannabis.

-----------------------------------------

Besides peyote, if what you are looking for is not the psychedelic aspect but just the relaxation bit for the meditative tea, then I can recommend a number of mild herbs;

Lavender
Hops flowers
Valerian Root
Chamomile

All can be taken in tea form. They are not soul revealing, just relaxing,

All the best,

Joe







Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 1/10/2015 6:01:13 AM
Reply

Jah also made the opium poppy....... Jah also made the magic mushroom..........
That doesn't mean as conscious ones we would consume it

Recreational superstition

Whether to be used or not we disagree, but we are in agreement that hallucinogens are no ganja alternative


Messenger: ShivaJiva Sent: 1/10/2015 8:20:42 AM
Reply

What is your basis for comparing peyote to crack cocaine? Crack is highly addictive and psychedelics are well known to be some of the best medicines for fighting addiction.

I respect your choice not to consume psychedelics, but your statements seem to be based on dogma. It is not recreational superstition...for me, psychedelics are far from recreational. If you want to know why people claim spiritual insight from psychedelic use, research it or try for yourself. You can't just assume that everyone who thinks such is just superstitious because you have never experienced it. Nearly every indigenous culture has utilized plant psychedelics, including mushrooms, for spiritual purposes.

Jah made many many things, and not all of them are for human consumption--but people could use that same argument against cannabis. Opium in its raw form can be used for the benefit of a great many people, and historically it has done so. It wasn't until the Opium Wars imposed by the British on China that opium got the reputation that it has now. Jah made arsenic, which is in almost everything in trace amounts. Jah made venomous snakes. Jah made cancer. I don't think "what comes from nature" is a valid argument because not everything from nature is inherently good. But to compare mushrooms to opium to crack like they are the same thing seems silly to I. Redefine what you consider to be a "drug"

Using your logic, here is what babylon has to say about cannabis:

"The short-term effects of marijuana include problems with memory and learning, distorted perception, difficulty in thinking and problem-
solving, and loss of coordination. The effect of marijuana on perception and coordination are responsible for serious impairments in driving abilities.

Long-term chronic marijuana use is associated with Amotivational Syndrome, characterized by apathy, impairment of judgment, memory and concentration, and loss of motivation, ambition and interest in the pursuit of personal goals.

High doses of marijuana can result in mental confusion, panic reactions and hallucinations. Researchers have also found an association between marijuana use and an increased risk of depression; an increased risk and earlier onset of schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders, especially for teens that have a genetic predisposition.

Short-term physical effects from marijuana use may include sedation, blood shot eyes, increased heart rate, coughing from lung irritation, increased appetite, and decreased blood pressure. Like tobacco smokers, marijuana smokers experience serious health problems such as bronchitis, emphysema, and bronchial asthma. Extended use may cause
suppression of the immune system.

Because marijuana contains toxins and carcinogens, marijuana smokers increase their risk of cancer of the head, neck, lungs and respiratory track. Withdrawal from chronic use of high doses of
marijuana causes physical signs including headache, shakiness, sweating, stomach pains and nausea, as well as behavioral signs including restlessness, irritability, sleep difficulties and decreased appetite"

So in that vein of logic, why would I ever take something that makes me sedated and indifferent, could give me cancer or bronchitis, and that poses a risk of me becoming depressed and/or potentially psychotic or scizophrenic?

Obviously smoking cannabis is not going to make you psychotic unless you are predisposed to certain mental conditions. Obviously much of this "research" is twisted and used to persecute those who consume cannabis. Likewise, HPPD is a very rare condition and you will not continue to "hallucinate" after taking a psychedelic unless you are pre-disposed to certain psychiatric conditions or you take psychedelics on a very frequent and regular basis.

Mushrooms, peyote, ayahuasca, salvia divinorum, and countless other ethnobotanicals are known to be some of the safest substances you can put into your body given that you take them in the proper context. The only people who have significant potential for negative physical effects are those with heart conditions or mental disorders.

SOURCES:
http://iceers.org/docs/science/ayahuasca/Halpern%20et%20al_2008_Evidence_Health_Safety_Ayahuasca.pdf

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_url?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedirect.com%2Fscience%2Farticle%2Fpii%2FS0006322305008553&hl=en&sa=T&ct=res&cd=3&ei=YiSxVMnwAcG8qQG8wICwBA&scisig=AAGBfm0etzfIDeVchlWspWYJ9v8kEdTFog&nossl=1&ws=1366x631

Iboga is a huge part of African culture and is being used now to treat addictions, it is considered a breakthrough in modern pharmacology. Iboga does have potential for serious physical side effects and should only be taken under the supervision of a medical professional for the purpose of overcoming life-threatening addictions.

http://rabbit.if-pan.krakow.pl/~popikp/download/5397_popik_ibogaine_pharm_rev.pdf


You talk about burning all illusion...I promise you, as a rational individual, there is no better tool for shattering illusion than a psychedelic such as peyote or psilocybin containing mushrooms. I completely respect that they might not fit into Rasta, and that's okay, but I don't think your comparison/analysis on a personal level is very fair.

Yes, take psychedelics with caution, but they are gifts from nature which can reveal many things to us and in fact they are actually very safe. Why do you consider cannabis to be something positive as opposed to peyote or mushrooms? Cannabis too can cause hallucinations, as we know. If I were to say that Rastas were all a bunch of superstitious lazy drug users/crack heads because they smoke ganja and trick themselves into spiritual revelation, that would be totally unfounded. So why any different with psychedelic plants? Smoking the herb is not "recreational superstition" and neither is taking peyote or likewise as a sacrament. What do you think of the countless cultures which have used these plants for medicinal/spiritual purposes through history, including our African ancestors? Other than what you have read from outside sources, what is your opinion based off of?



Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 1/10/2015 8:28:44 AM
Reply

My basis is that anything in the framework of what would be labelled 'drugs' outside of Ganja to a Rasta is under one umbrella with crack and cocaine.

I am aware of the effects of herbs but to think they are comparable to that of hallucinogens such as LSD & peyote is just....wrong. Euphoria, calmness, mild sedation and sometimes anxiety dont compare to HALLUCINATING when and even when not taking the drug, together with all of the sympathetic nervous system effects listed.

I would argue than any and every culture ancient or not use hallucinogens out of superstition........ Just because they are ancient doesn't mean they aren't superstitious. Hallucinations are not divine gateway to that which we cannot otherwise perceive, or any other mystical way one wants to dress it up. No. Again, consulting the poisons database: The difference between GANJA and hallucinogens is SIGNIFICANT





Description
Cannabis sativa 1 to 4 metre tall plant with coarse, rough stems and small, green flowers. The plant is loosely branched with irregularly toothed leaves that are arranged in a pattern of 3 to 7 leaves per stem. Native to the Far East, the United States, and Central America.

Cannabis indica (Indian Hemp) - is a similar plant species to C. sativa but it does not grow as tall, usually only up to 1.2 metres. It is more densely branched and has broader leaves compared to C. sativa. Native to India.

Cannabis ruderalis much smaller plant than the C. sativa and C. indica. growing up to 30-60 cm when fully mature. It is unbranched or only very sparsely branched, the leaves are very broad and short compared to the other two species. Native to Siberia and central Asia but also found in Europe and Russia.

Drug of abuse.

Toxins
Cannabinoids - primarily delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (Δ;;9-THC), Δ;;8-THC, cannabinol and cannabidiol.

Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) is the main psychoactive cannabinoid which is found at concentrations up to 4%, although there are reports that this concentration is increasing (Hall, 2000; Ramaekers, 2006).

Toxicity
Dried parts of the plant (usually crushed leaves and flowers) or the extracted resin are usually smoked or ingested. Injection of the oil (hash oil) or cannabis extract (tea) is uncommon.

Cannabinoids are present in all parts of the plant; the psychoactive cannabinoids are mainly concentrated in the resin from the female flowering tops. Dried leaves, flowering shoots (bhang) and seeds contain lower concentrations (Fisar, 2009).

If smoked or injected features start within 5-20 minutes and last for 3 hours or more, absorption after ingestion is slow and erratic and features may not appear until 2 hours and last for 6 hours.

Cannabis is a rare cause of acute myocardial infarction (Mittleman, 2001).

ALERT BOX
All those who have been exposed as a result of self-harm should be referred for assessment.

All children and symptomatic adults should be referred for medical assessment.

Features
Ingestion and inhalation - anxiety and excitement followed by calmness and euphoria, drowsiness and sleep. Colour and sound perception may be enhanced. Dry mouth, tachycardia, hypotension and possibly panic. In more severe intoxication ataxia, lethargy and fasciculations may occur. Paroxysmal atrial fibrillation has been reported (Kosior et al, 2001).

Pulmonary irritation, including cough, sore throat, rhinitis, and bronchitis may occur after inhalation.

Accidental ingestion by children has caused coma with dilated pupils, hypotonia and hyporeflexia.

Injection - nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, watery diarrhoea, rigors, fever, dyspnoea, cardiovascular instability (normally hypotension), shock, disseminated intravascular coagulation and rhabdomyolysis. Later, renal impairment, cholestatic jaundice, muscle pain and weakness. A polymorph leucocytosis, thrombocytopenia and hypoglycaemia may occur.

A cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome has been described where patients with a long history (years) of cannabis abuse develop a cyclical pattern of hyperemesis occurring every few weeks or months. Patients often have a compulsion to have multiple hot showers or baths to provide symptomatic relief. Symptoms resolve with abstention from cannabis (Allen et al, 2004; Sontineni et al, 2009; Raja et al, 2012).




Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 1/10/2015 8:30:00 AM
Reply

There is nothing better to burn illusion than taking mushrooms?

Brother, we are not going to agree

I don't know where this enthusiasm for tripping out and seeing things that are NOT REAL comes from but it certainly isnt from Rastafari.......I would argue your definition of illusion need looking into..... Hallucinations are illusions.

illusion
[ih-loo-zhuh n]
Spell Syllables
Synonyms Examples Word Origin
noun
1.
something that deceives by producing a false or misleading impression of reality.


hallucinate
hə;;;ˈ;;;luː;;;sɪ;;;neɪ;;;t/Submit
verb
experience a seemingly real perception of something not actually present, typically as a result of a mental disorder or of taking drugs.


conscious
ˈ;;kɒ;;nʃ;;ə;;s/Submit
adjective
1.
aware of and responding to one's surroundings


= false consciousness. A direct conflict of livity for InI people


Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 1/10/2015 8:35:39 AM
Reply

I can smoke herbs and go about my works and my business in arguably a better capacity than before hand. Can one take LSD/ Peyote and go about their works and business as per usual?


InI have met with Haile Selassie, herbs blazing, without any apology. And InI conduct Iself righteously.

Would the I consume hallucinogens in the sight of the King?




Messenger: ShivaJiva Sent: 1/10/2015 8:43:38 AM
Reply

And what makes you believe that psychedelics make you think you see something that isnt there or that isnt real?

Hallucination:

a sensory experience of something that does not exist outside the mind, caused by various physical and mental disorders, or by reaction to certain toxic substances, and usually manifested as visual or auditory images.

the sensation caused by a hallucinatory condition or the object or scene visualized.

a false notion, belief, or impression; illusion; delusion.

None of these are what one experiences when they take a psychedelic. It is very unfortunate that they have been associated with hallucinations.

The distinction then is that Rasta considers anything considered a "drug" to be bad, other than ganja? Why is ganja not in this category? And is it not fair to point out that what is a "drug" and what is not is a product of babylon? Maybe we need to rethink what drugs are...because surely indigenous Americans would not consider their sacrament a drug in the same way that crack is.

Why do you smoke ganja? What do you find beneficial about it in a spiritual context? Why do you think you cannot also experience this with something like peyote? Cannabis is also a hallucinogen, what distinguishes it from other natural psychoactive substances?

Im not sure this is an appropriate reasoning for this discussion, so perhaps I will make a separate post. And we can definitely agree to disagree, Im not interested in trying to convince everyone to take psychedelics. But I think your perspective on what psychedelic users look like is based off of common stereotypical and non-factual representations by babylon media. Ganja has been demonized through history, why is it so hard to believe that likewise so too have certain other plants with the capacity to reveal and liberate?


Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 1/10/2015 8:46:15 AM
Reply

So peyote doesnt produce hallucinations? You disagree with the posions database?


1 - 1011 - 2021 - 3031 - 4041 - 5051 - 6061 - 68

Return to Reasoning List




RastafarI
 
Haile Selassie I