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Creationism vs Evolution

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Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 8/3/2020 3:05:23 PM

One of the hardest things in my life to accept was this question with regards to Creation. In my youth I had been told that we were created by God. How did we know? Because a book (written by other humans) told us so. Meanwhile, in other cultures, people were telling there children different stories about different gods. So even if the general idea was the same it was more like a logical conclusion that humanity itself had come to in order to explain its own origins and this forgotten memory of exactly what happened before us.

The logic basically is the same for most if not all superstitions. You take something you don't know and you simply assume it came from god(s). Meanwhile, even though you have seemingly made sense of that thing you really didn't. You simply shifted the explanation onto something else that is also inexplicable. So you have comfort in saying "God created me" and therefore you can imagine this loving fatherly relationship and imagine this father will return some day even though he's been gone for also as long as anyone can remember save for individuals who claim God is talking to them for the purpose of personal elevation.

What people can't and don't want to imagine is being the offspring of some lower life form. It's not sexy.

What is sexy is what we tell ourselves; what we believe. No one wants to believe they're literally a "monkey's uncle" no matter how much we may look alike. What's sexy is your dad being king of the universe. Why, because doesn't that make you a prince?

But wait... did anyone stop to think about how we humans are the ones who created the whole notion of kings and queens and kingdoms and all of this ownership of land and sea because of our own GREED? And while we're so busy wanting to be royalty we forget how many people died in poverty because of royal families fighting over more land and wealth than they even knew what to do with? Why do we want that? Why do we want streets of gold and pearly gates? I don't want that. Keep your riches. I have a nice house with a little stream in the back. I got a hot tub and a theater room. I'm comfortable AF. My woman is great. My kids are great. I'm happy. What do I want to be a king for? And if we all kings then none of us are kings. It doesn't mean anything without people under you who are there to serve you.

It is baked into human nature to want to be more. And the identity we get from believing we were created by the king of the universe takes us from our current state of being servants and slaves to a Utopian dream where we are the masters. I don't want that. To me that is a mark of a person towards the beginning of their spiritual journey, not the end.

So when people wrote about this father of the human species and everything he could do, bragging against people who thought they were created by different gods, it was all ego and arrogance. They didn't care what God actually looked like. They wanted to imagine God looked like them because the idea was a product of their own imagination. But it is impossible for God to look like us if such a thing exists. We look the way we do because our bodies are made up of and adapted to our physical ecosystem.

Our skin is like the earth. We have hair that grows out of our skin like the grass. We have lungs like out atmosphere. We have blood. We have a bunch of organs and systems that are completely vulnerable and couldn't survive in space but then we want to say God isn't limited to a planet. It's so ridiculous. Why would God need lungs? And if he doesn't have lungs does he have a throat? Does he have vocal cords? If so, why? Because you have them? Could you have them in space? Can they work in space? What about eyes and ears? Does God need these physical structures in order to see and hear?

Human is the height of what we can imagine. The only think we believe is better than looking like us is also having the ability to do magic. So we believe God can do magic even though there is nothing that proves magic exists. What we typically don't do is act like one person couldn't have created everything around us even though there so many different species and types of life on this planet. We understand how one species could propagate and diversify and even host a number of mutation. We can imagine how this could happen because we understand how we have children. Another thing we don't tend to do is think about the errors in our physical DNA that lead to millions of problems. There are even some people who are still born with tails. There are people born with male and female sexual organs and we want to pretend that we were created with magic. Well if it was magic, how come its so buggy? How many humans are born with no allergies, so perfect they don't snore or anything?

When we romanticize the world we give credit to God. But when we experience all the problems in the world that's when we want blame each other for all the imperfections. The bottom line is that this is how we gave birth to God and Satan. We project everything we believe to be good onto God and everything we believe to be evil onto Satan without understanding the relative nature of good and evil. And so one man's god can be another man's devil. So when God tells you to take someone else's land you think that's good but the person you're taking it from can only experience that as evil.

So how then can you explain how we got here? Is Evolution enough to explain it?

Well, understand this. If you say there must be a God because how else did we get here what you're really saying is that it is impossible for a human, advanced and powerful as we are, to exist without the hand of a designer; someone more advanced and intelligent. But if that's the case how did the designer get here without anyone designing the designer? We unfairly created this scenario only to explain our own existence and didn't care anything about the existence of the God who created us because for us we were willing to say God did it to have an explanation. But we're happy with that, happy not knowing anything about God or really where he came from. And the more you abandon knowledge to explain how we got here the more you are creating to explain for God.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 8/3/2020 3:13:35 PM

What is the alternative?

At a certain point in the argument, there's no choice. Everyone would have to say "I don't know." Those of us who believe in Evolution can't know when and how life started. Creationists are the same. They don't know when life started; they only think they know when life started on earth because they trace back a human lineage back to Adam. However, how would the writer have known if there were other adams?

And at this point it should be noted that, as far as methods go, we have seen evidence of evolution because we've seen evolution happen in laboratory conditions now. Have believers shown creation in laboratory conditions? Of course not.

One of the arguments I used to make against evolution was this idea of things seeming to magically come together out of no where. Like how could the pieces of a clock be sitting there and over time it just builds itself into a clock? But this is not how evolution works. I didn't want to understand evolution at the time because I believed in Creation. But evolution explains more about our nature, why we need to sleep, eat, chemical drives to procreate, even from young ages, etc. If it was all magic then why not have magical bodies that don't need food. Imagine how different the world would be if we didn't need to eat.

Messenger: Geez Che Sent: 8/3/2020 3:26:17 PM

Greetings IP,

Everything you say is correct apart from you questioning of the universe.

Of course it could all be in our imagination, no planets, no moons, no black holes, no stars, Ra does not exist and even if he does, he is not the centre of the universe, the Gaia Hypothesis.

I guess your one of these flat earthers believing, not in the harmony of the spheres that Pythagoras taught, music, but in the never ending expanse of earth that we can explore like Heroditus.

In fact even the Chinese, though they believed the Earth was flat, thought that it was finite, a square in fact. They even measured it by triangulating with the sun.

The fact is that there is a reason we cannot see beings from other planets, jinn, not because we can't imagine them, but because we exist in different slices of time, an unravelled tapestry waiting to be restored.

The angels and demons of this world are our guardians, guiding and policing us. Perhaps that is a mistake. I would guess that demons come from the sun, ra, being made of fire.

Labels are of course unnecessary, we could call them all jinn, except that men come from earth where as jinn come from elsewhere.

Government? Of which borough? Of which country? Of which world? The list goes on.

It is foolishness to invade other planets with stupid machines that can barely communicate through the veils of time.

I would say the war was started by Staurn, Satan, but that is using labels again.

One love.

Messenger: Geez Che Sent: 8/3/2020 3:44:05 PM

Tell us about Oshun, the Virgin of Regla, what is her real name? Afrodietea? wxt

p.s. I might let you study medicine with me if you're lucky, I am currently investigating a five hundred year old man who died in 1920. I know you're more of a vet, I have a very interesting book on that two which I might recommend. Care to trade?

I'm not really interested in any of this, just passing the time, and wishing you live long and prosper, Oshun really does sound English to me, has she an older name and who was she? I met a girl online once who claimed she was from the village in which Ifa began, she was to beautiful for me, I'd stick to music for the time being and forget about integrating with the stars, they're downloading Saturn's plan for exterminating Venus as well as their ancestors.

In Greece, the Ifa opon is called a tavli set for managing the Pharoahs use of the Pyramid, it is a game that originated in Egypt, the oldest set being made of gold and found in one of the tombs. I believe it is similar to American democracy, but played with dice.

What do you think of Musk's belief that the Pyramids are the work of jinn;?; It sounds very plausible to me, without wishing to belittle men.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 8/4/2020 8:23:35 AM


huh? When did I question the universe? Why would I question the universe? That's the opposite of what I'm saying. A Flat Earther is a creationist who denies the natural form of the universe. I believe everything in nature evolves according to its environment, based on the laws of physics. Because the laws of physics are logical it then creates an "order" out of the chaos that resulted from the Big Bang. And the big bang is simply the rapid expansion of the universe that follows contraction. Flat earth theory is for people who are so distrustful of science and government that they think everyone would lie and that even the time difference between the US and Japan is some elaborate mechanism that would serve no purpose other than imitating what would exist on a round planet. But why go through the hassle of making a flat surface appear round when you can just make it round? Because Flat Earthers sadly don't understand how gravity works. PLEASE don't get me started.

Messenger: Eleazar Sent: 8/5/2020 7:18:37 AM

Scientists have approximated the age of the Earth at around 4 and a half billion years, and have tracked the morphological changes of organisms through time via the fossils contained within the sedimentary rock record. However, the exact origins of Life are still unknown to science, although there are many scientific theories none have been definitively proven.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 8/5/2020 10:58:05 AM


Exactly, correct.

The same is true of Creation. People can try to say approximately when it happened, but their explanation is essentially magic... like God said it and it happened; the same idea behind magical spells. That's not an explanation unless you, at some point, explain the existence of magic.

Not only that...

But Creation says that a being who was already alive, created life on earth. So Creation is only concerned with life on earth, not the origin of life itself because no one ever deals with the origin of the Creator. Therefore, neither theory cover the existence of life itself. If life didn't already exist it could not evolve OR create. That's what I want people to understand.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 8/5/2020 11:35:25 AM

In my own understanding of life, I believe you have to allow the concept and understanding of life itself to evolve over time. This, for me, is what resolved the logical problem of evolution.

In other words, what we call life is based on our current perception of life. But this perception is based on life that has already evolved into newer forms. The essence of life is energy.

When we judge the intelligence of animals and plants we don't consider plants to be intelligent at all. So how is it that a plant could orient its solar panels, aka leaves and petals, to get more light from the sun. They cannot technically "see" the sun so how are they able to do this? Even talking about them "doing" something it's almost like we're conferring upon them a certain level of intelligence because an inanimate object can't really "do" anything.

heliotropic flowers track the sun and phototropic flowers simply grow towards the sun. Fun facts.

So if it is about energy and even a plant can seek out an energy source then an animal with legs can evolve motor functions for the same reason; to seek out sources of energy. What do we do more than anything else? We are consumers of energy and we have to replace it so we have to eat. This defining characteristic is what helps us advance.

Flowers don't have to compete very much for sunlight. What they have to compete for is water. But they cannot get in a car and move to a new neighborhood. If they don't get enough water they simply die. However, they may live long enough to produce seeds which can be spread over a larger area until one of that flower's future descendants finds more fertile soil. It's life isn't necessarily over if you consider the seed to be part of its life. It... as an organism is not one body but many.

Plants are alive but not in the same form and function as animals. You also have bacteria that are alive but not exactly in the same form and function as plants. There are different levels of life to which reproduction exists but the environment plays much more of a role in the locomotion of the life form. Seeds can fly through the wind just as birds adapt wings that can catch currents of air. Fish move through water, aided by fins.

Ever seen a water bear? Also called a tardigrade, these animals can survive in space.

They can survive in -328 degree Fahrenheit up to 300 degrees. They can survive radiation, boiling liquids, and massive amounts of pressure without protection. In other words... they are stronger than us. They are simply microscopic in size.

This is the type of animal that could have survived the harsh conditions on an early Earth or even traveled to earth on a comet or asteroid.

But this obviously resembles more of an animal. But what if there were earlier forms of life that was just energy moving through a particular stream or pathway. And then as the pathway itself became more intricate and advanced, the energy inside adapted to it until it wasn't just moving based on the laws of physics or moving based on chemistry but rather moving like the plants that grow towards the sun, on their own?

In other words... what we cannot see is the balance between the organism and the environment and how they shape each other. I think this was better understood by ancient humans would called the sun God by different names because the energy that comes from the sun is literally life... And then they called the Earth mother. So between the sun who gives life and the mother who is the womb of life, every religion adapted to this fundamental principle.

And so even though we weren't there to see it our behavior mimics it. And even the fact that we have mothers and fathers, mimics it. And that's why we have all these beliefs where the gods are our parents. because they are. Scientists tell us that we are literally star dust.

So when ancient humans were looking up at the stars they were literally looking up at their ancestors. They just weren't people. We want to believe that we came from consciousness but the truth is that we came from energy and energy evolved consciousness... through us. It evolved to the point where consciousness was possible because it is our brains that have the capacity for consciousness. If plants are conscious its possible but not on the same level.


you can't just look at the organism evolving but also the behavior and the expression of life it self. Earlier forms of life could simply be thought of as movement or animation. The more you think about your movement the more purpose it has. But that purpose evolves with will, with needs, with wants and desires. We don't simply run around harvesting energy from plants and animals. We spend that energy pursuing our dreams. And ironically some of those dreams are to live/travel among the stars where we came from.

Messenger: Black Christ in Flesh Sent: 8/7/2020 12:09:21 AM

Well, you wouldn't expect everyone to comfortably accept your point of view. While you are merely musing on possibilities, some of us already know the truth and need not a man come teach us where we came from. Take me for instance. I had my first vision at 7 years of age, in broad daylight and I wasn't dozing off, or using any drugs or herbs at that age. But while fully awake, I looked up to heaven and saw a mighty one riding a chariot of flames, going easy as thoughvin a wedding procession. The experience drunkened me from my head to my knees and I fell in a heap, only to get up and he was gone.

Anyways, the point of this short story is that some of us know things you would only dream of knowing,and your little musings mean nothing to the vast wisdom I and I possess. Your evolution story is all but a big joke to me. I read it, for the humour, but I wouldn't buy it for free. Have fun musing around, bro.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 8/10/2020 5:15:42 PM

Actually, bro, evolution is not a musing but actual science that has been reproduced in laboratory conditions.,believes%20is%20a%20new%20species.

So this is not speculation or whatever. It is fact. If you are a seeker of knowledge then you will accept it as such. If you are a believer then you don't have to accept anything you don't want to.

Theories in science, are different from normal theories. A theory in science is the explanation for why something is what it is or why it works or functions the way we observe.

One of the things about science is that it is repeatable. That means if the same experiment is run multiple times the results give the same kind of results.

I don't discount your experiences. I simply don't discount the fact that MANY people have such experiences; people from different cultures and walks of life, and in every case I have heard of the vision or dream involves things they have already heard or believe. If a 7 year old Chinese Buddhist has a vision they're going to see something different and interpret it as something different.

If you want to consider your experience to be knowledge you have to be willing and able to criticize yourself and not take anything at face value. The mind is very powerful. You can pass out just from heat and have a dream before you realize that you even lost consciousness. Happened to me very recently. You're not the only one in the world who has experienced things. That doesn't mean what you experience is real.

How far away was this "mighty one"? Was it far enough that you could barely see it? How do you know it was a chariot? Why would it be a "chariot"? How does a chariot make any sense in the sky? In the bible the term is used because the writer doesn't have a better frame of reference than to use a land vehicle. Today, we have newer inventions that actually fly. So why not compare it to a jet, helicopter, drone, etc. Why a chariot? Because perhaps your mind wanted to have a religious experience and chose to show you what it believed to be a vision you wanted or needed to see.

Older folks who have read about many different experiences, including ayahuasca, know that people have even seen the same type of imagery as another person who has taken the same halucinogen. You should read the Cosmic Serpent by Jeremy Narby.

What you haven't done is combined the experience with knowledge about how the mind works. When you were younger have you never seen something in the dark that you thought was alive and moving? Many children are afraid of monsters because their brains cannot identify every object in very low light situations so what does it do? It takes the electrical signals from the eyes and passes it through the filter of imagination. You don't see exactly what your eyes see. You see an image that is filtered through your mind's eye. If that filter is compromised, whether it be by drugs, or by fear, or by belief, etc. What you see isn't necessarily what was actually there.

We also see this in NDEs or "near death experiences". A lot of people report to see familiar images from their religious convictions. A lot of people see a bright light. Of course the light could simply be the sun, if they're looking up from the ground, the lights on the ceiling whether their home or hospital bed and they are simply extra sensitive to the light because of the condition they're in, etc. But how does this explain NDE experiences where someone, for example, thinks they've actually gone to heaven and were sent back? These experiences match their brand of theology but not necessarily a correct interpretation of the bible. It's simply their personal belief.

So what should we say then? That the bible is wrong? Or do we admit and accept the possibility that two people can have conflicting visions?

And how do we know that Moshe himself didn't venture to a part of the mountain near the burning bush where noxious gases were being vented and it caused him to hallucinate? How do we know?

Did you know that your imagination plays a role in your memory recall? Did you know that you really don't remember all the details of your past like you think; that your memory has gaps that is filled in by your imagination. So the imagination plays a large function in how we experience life.

If what you saw was actually there, who else saw it? If it is your experience alone then why not accept that it was in your mind? There's nothing wrong with that. It's normal. That's why I told you before that personal experience doesn't define reality for other people. Other people have other experiences. I've seen things that weren't real too. And once I stopped believing in those things I never saw them again. Why? Because I reprogrammed my mind not to produce those images from my imagination because I no longer accepted those imaginary things could possibly exist.

You can say all day long that you weren't hallucinating, you weren't passed out, you weren't dreaming, you weren't having a heat stroke, you weren't this or that, that's fine. But until you have exhausted all medical explanations for that state of brain activity you really don't know the reasons why you saw what you saw. But in my mind you are a believer because you don't seem to care why you saw what you saw. You only care about what you saw. And that's fine... for you. But I'm not you and therefore I don't have to accept what you believe you saw. Just like I don't accept everything I read. I don't just look at what someone wrote. I consider WHY they wrote it. I consider their intentions, their beliefs, their power, their circumstances, their affiliations and social contracts, their culture, and even their politics. That is how you seek knowledge vs belief. You question everything.

With all due respect, if you don't ask questions it is because you don't want to know the answers.

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