Use the drop-down boxes above to navigate through the Website  
Return to Reasoning List

Here is a link to this page:

Race, numbers, labels and perception

1 - 5
Time Zone: EST (New York, Toronto)
Messenger: Geez Che Sent: 12/17/2019 3:34:48 PM

First off to my mind the word "race" is racist because it implies we're in some kind of competition and a linear one at that.

Numbers are events, not things, everything is in flux, so maybe the distinction isn't that important.

At any rate, numbers are hierarchically ordered, in a line. The so called real numbers are what is known as linearly ordered which amounts to the same thing.

Dimensions create partial orders, trees, which are not linearly hierarchical because two branches can be on the same level.

It is true that these can always be collapsed into a linear order by applying a suitable metric, but one looses continuity in the process.

And so we come to space and time, numbers in more than one dimension and continuous movement throughout these dimensions.

Continuity is a choice, as Zeno of Elia pointed out and was doubtless known before.

One chooses the approach and the outcome according to these choices.

What does this have to do with "race"?

There are at least two theories of "race" that I know of that are based on finite orderings.

The first is the three so called "races": Negroid, Caucasoid and Mongoloid. In this Whites are a subgroup of Caucasoid, as are Asian Indians and Semitic People, who are Indo-European, but not "White".

The other is the four so called "races" by skin colour: Black, White, Red, Yellow. In this it is hard to fit some people like Semitics, Asian Indians or Aboriginal Australians.

However, the significance of both of these theories is the numbers, three and four.

All of us have either three or four types of cones in our eyes with which we perceive colour or hue and one type of rod with which we perceive intensity.

Three is the minimum number of colours or labels needed to partition any circle.

Four is the minimum number of colours of labels needed to partition any surface.

But these partitions hold that the boundaries of the partitions are finite.

In fact if the boundaries are infinite, even though they may contain only finitely many points, then the number of colours or labels needed is as many as the number of partitions, so we can partition the world into any number of "races" we choose.

"Race" is arbitrary, given that it has an infinite boundary, and we can choose as many or as few "racial" categories as we want, it simply depends what we put our attention on.

Many people still want to put their attention on "Black" and "White".

These "racial" categories don't work for me because I am a complex mix, but if others wish to use them, that is there prerogative. However it has no reality outside of their own heads and those who agree with them.

Some reality stems from the number of cones, and some justification stems from the three and four colour theorems, but the reality is that both people and groups of people have infinite boundaries, infinite subtlety and though a person may contain a finite number of cells and a group of people a finite number of people, their depth of presence extends for ever.

There is nothing wrong with forming groups either wilfully or by observation, but at the end of the day it depends what we put our attention on, and like all numbers, is an event, constantly in flux, constantly changing.

Thank you.

Messenger: Geez Che Sent: 12/17/2019 3:57:38 PM

I should clarify this idea of grouping.

We come together under a shared banner studying each other's experiences and finding common ground. That is one form of wilful grouping.

Another is to study people and group them without their consent. This is really a means of control.

Generally if we put something out there, it is for others to study, to see if they want to join with us or not.

Experimenting on people, studying and grouping them without their consent is not respectful.

Thank you.

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 12/17/2019 10:18:55 PM

what do you call a Nigerian mixed with an ivory coast mixed with a Congolese mixed with a guinea mixed again with a Nigerian mixed with a European bakkra mixed again with a Ghanaian and so on and so on for 500 to 1000 years and then isolated from the motherland for another 200? Pan-African? African? Maafa? New tribe? Black? None of these labels give InI an IDENTITY or nationality though as opposed to English or Indian for example. After you discuss what to call them, the next question is what is their culture? A hybrid of each?

This is what InI people have been faced with.

InI didn't create the race construct
InI didn't create the intermixing and interbreeding of chattel slavery
But yet and still
InI are left to reparate the after effects on I psyche I mind I self awareness I genetic code I natural physiology and so on....

People say they are mixed.
Nobody mix like Maafa tribe

"Africa for the Africans at home and abroad
No matter where you are as long as your a black man, you an African...."

Give thanks the Rastafari give InI a sense of some form of identity and self awareness so InI was not completely LOST and Blind out here in Babylon captivity

Messenger: Geez Che Sent: 12/18/2019 4:00:56 AM

Yes Garveys, I agree completely.

I'm not going to get into I identity. We are different. What's new. Everyone different.

I know you don't like Bible, but "know that ye are Gods".

God is only a word but it points to something.

What does Rastafari point to?

I don't judge Marcus, he was a product of his time, but he is not alive today to say how he would see things now, though life is eternal.

Personally I don't like this "white race" business as I don't think it correctly distinguishes between people.

The oppressed did not invent it, so why use it?

As for "black race", I still think it is a chain.

Thank you.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 12/18/2019 2:57:40 PM

Sorry but a lot of what you said is superfluous.

If you don't want to call yourself white... don't. Who's making you?

When I was in middle school and perhaps briefly in high school I thought... why call myself black? That's what someone else called me. I'm not black. I'm brown. Why call myself by this exaggeration? I did think that... in my ignorance.

I say in my ignorance because we were called black the same way that Christians were called Christians. The term started as a derrogation. If you search for the word in the NT you will see this quite clearly. People adopted this word, I suspect, because of the shared experience of persecution as "Christians".

In terms of actual color... I'm brown. But in terms of the racial construct that was created to designate myself and my people, I happily call myself black just as they were called. Because we are one people and I feel that connection and solidarity with them. I know what they went through. I can only imagine the pain they suffered. They came from different tribes, spoke different languages, but whites didn't care. They were united against us and therefore they united us under one banner. "Black".

And now we own this word. Now we make this word cool. Now we have "black pride". We even took the N-word and made it our own. When life handed us lemons we made lemonade and then we sold it for millions. Black is simply the racial construct that represents our shared experience. No one knows that some small percentage of me is white just like many other African Americans because some massa long ago got horny and his wife was on her period. No one cares. White people don't see the drop of white blood and raise my credit score. They see my face, my dreads, and as far as they're concerned I'm the blackest 6'2 gorilla-lookin nigga they've ever seen. And their instinct is to fear me.

My father came from Jamaica, last name Sinclair. Name most likely just an indication of the ownership of the white family of the Sinclair clan, who owned slaves in Jamaica. Still, I have hundreds of black people on facebook that we've added each other as friends, not knowing if we're related or not, and not trying to figure it out because we're related by something other than blood. We didn't choose the name Sinclair. We didn't choose to be called black. But all these things are a part of us. And all these things are where we came from. And so instead of shame, we choose pride. We call each other brotha... sistah... because we're related in spirit... connected by something greater than blood, tribe, or nationality. what do any of these things mean?

So I may not have gotten to choose my birth, my skin color, my lineage, my country, even my name. But **I** choose wear the name and label that was given to me because it connects me with all the others it was also given to. My people.

Now... in saying that... I can understand if this seems like a private club that whites can never belong to. And clearly there are some who want to, some who imagine they want to, and some who would never want to. It used to be that men could never belong to the female club and vice versa. Now, they can change their sex. But they can't be both. So if any one who is white, wants to be black, I welcome them with open arms. Have some kind operation. Let them make themselves black the same way there are black people bleaching their skin to look white. Struggle as one of us and I'll call them one of us. It's that simple. However, there is a much higher demand for men to be women and women men than for whites to become black.

1 - 5

Return to Reasoning List

Haile Selassie I