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DID THE WHITE MAN REALLY WRITE THE BIBLE?

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Time Zone: EST (New York, Toronto)

Messenger: Jahcub Onelove Sent: 10/21/2019 4:37:57 AM

"WE IN ETHIOPIA HAVE ONE OF THE OLDEST VERSIONS OF THE BIBLE" - Haile Selassie I Ethiopia has the oldest Bible, written in Ge'ez, a written hieroglyphic language. How could the white man give Africa the Bible, when it is Ethiopia that has the oldest Bible? How could the white man write the Bible when the oldest Bible is Ethiopian? The Bible takes place in Africa The stories and teachings are African It was written by Africans The Bible is African

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 10/21/2019 7:36:46 AM

Because it was still a translation. It is still sourced from the septuagint etc and the new testament itself was originally Greek too The more pertanent question would be.... Who is to say the authors of these Greek texts were not black? Given the whole of North Africa / middle east being hellenistic / Greek speakers at the time. Just as English documents today do not necessarily mean they originate from an Englishman. The same could be said for Greek documents of the hellenistic period and beyond Let us not forget. The Ethiopian Church is a a child of the Coptic Church.... Again... Greek speakers His Majesty said Ethiopia has One of the oldest versions.... Not The oldest version and not the original. Let's not misquote the King in a quest for judeochristianity validity Selah ORIGIN OF THE ETHIOPIAN BIBLE

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 10/21/2019 7:55:23 AM

And it can't be argued that Christianity came to Ethiopia via foreign, European / middle Eastern influence according to the Bible and according to history Bible says Philip converted the first Ethiopian. Philip was not an African... History says Ezana was converted by Frumentius. Frumentius was not an African....

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 10/21/2019 8:03:36 AM

To quote myself: "Just as English documents today do not necessarily mean they originate from an Englishman. The same could be said for Greek documents of the hellenistic period and beyon" ALL arguments about whether or not the Bible was originally written by white black asian or green people, ends with the above. And there is no way we will ever know past that. The conversation at that point for me changes to is the Bible / Christianity promoting African culture and values or suppm foreign? Does Christianity benefit InI African identity? .. In terms of dogma and in terms of its application These are better questions given in my estimation the original question cannot be answered further than the original texts being Hebrew and greek I hope the I dem overs This topic I have reasoned on and researched to doctorate level I think by now

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 10/21/2019 2:03:15 PM

In the case of the bible you cant really judge who the people were based on the language it was written in. The original language was Hebrew but everyone who spoke Hebrew doesn't mean they knew how to write. Aramaic was also used because it was a more common language that people used in trade. So you have to think about who the people wanted to reach with it as well as who the scribe was vs who may have been involved in copying it later. They didn't have a printing press so copies had to be made by hand. So this meant that scribes were contracted by usually wealthy individuals. This has nothing to do with the original language it may have been written in or the spoken language the story was first passed down in. Older stories relied on "oral traditions" which could introduce small changes over time. The assumption that a Griot like person was involved is highly suspect at best. The assumption that stories were remembered accurately is also suspect. The mind doesn't even remember your own experiences perfect, but instead fills in the gaps with your imagination. That's a fact. So how could a story you didn't even personally experience not fall victim to gaps filled by imagination? The language used had more to do with the time in Israel's history. The Greek NT really just underscored the fact that the NT was distributed to (not necessarily from) people who spoke Greek. Paul could speak Greek but most of the disciples could not. Notice this reaction. Acts 21:37 - And as Paul was to be led into the castle, he said unto the chief captain, May I speak unto thee? Who said, Canst thou speak Greek? This pretty much tells us that the Israelites weren't commonly known to be Greek speakers. Paul was different as he was a Roman citizen because of his father. So he was in a unique position, which he used to really bring this religion to the Greeks. It wasn't Yeshua's mission really. He told his disciples to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Paul wasn't a disciple but rather an apostle. It is only later do we see the command to preach to all nations. And if you're going to do that, in our time you'd use English not whatever your native tongue is. In their time the closest was probably Greek so that makes sense. We also see a religious split in the NT between the main orthodox church which was headed by James and the more missionary branch which starting to have a large impact on the European community. At first they tried to kill it but eventually were politically forced to embrace it. But in embracing it they were also able to influence and change it. So this is why it has a sort of European veneer. Just because European accepted the "story" didn't mean they accepted the source or the story tellers. I don't know if they were racists at this point. But I really think that attitude only depends on isolation vs integration. How many Roman citizens were black? If most of their black population were servants or slaves then my speculation would be that they may have seen the real authors as "beneath them" and therefore they simply changed the images based on artistic license. The fact that the most famous art of (Michelangelo's) David (micro penis) is white simply shows that they may have simply treated these stories as myths and therefore the historical accuracy of the characters wasn't important. Remember, they were used to their own Greek myths so the idea that they thought of all this stuff as literal truth is probably a reach to put it mildly.

Messenger: Jahcub Onelove Sent: 10/21/2019 8:58:46 PM

GARVEYS AFRICA said, "His Majesty said Ethiopia has One of the oldest versions.... Not The oldest version and not the original. Let's not misquote the King in a quest for judeochristianity validity" I did not misquote the King. The quote I posted says "one" of the oldest Bibles. I personally am saying that Ethiopia has the oldest Bible; that is an archeological fact. We have no older Bible. Selassie was being diplomatic in his use of the phrase "one of the oldest". H.I.M. knows Ethiopia has the oldest Bible; and by Bible I mean the full Bible old and new testaments. If not Ethiopia, then who has the oldest complete full version of the Bible?

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 10/22/2019 3:35:50 AM

To me it seems strange and maybe redundant to talk about the oldest collection of none primary sources. As we have established, no Bible (by definition) is an original text. Technically, the oldest version of this collection of secondary and tertiary works would be maybe the Septuagint + the Antithesis put together or read in unison. Both completed and internationally available before Ezana ever uttered the wordsound Jesus. In terms of 'complete and full' version.... What is this? Some Bible believers completely refute any notion of New Testament being a valid part of any Bible. Who are you to tell them their versions are not full and complete? Ethiopia has an 81 book Biblical cannon. Most others if not all other bibles have less books in their Canon. Who is to say their versions are not complete? All Ethiopia did was include Every book suggested by the varying different councils across the world. They didn't come up with their 81 books on their own accord. I think you misunderstand the process of selection that went on globally.... the council of laodycia, influence from the Bishop of alexandria and the Bishop of iconium (Turkey) and the apostolic constitutions of Syria.... All within the 4th century (Ezanas time) ....... All foreign people councils and texts used by 4th-5th century Ethiopia to choose which of the many texts to 'include' The point of your question was seemingly to say that the white man didn't give Ethiopia the Bible. We cannot comment on the race of the authors of the original Biblical texts. What we can say is who gave Ethiopia the idea of Christianity and who was involved and influential in the selection process of books within the Ethiopian Bible etc... Was this process all indigenous? The answer is empirically NO. To further the point, were the original texts of the Bible discovered IN Ethiopia or believed to have been produced in Ethiopia? NO ...

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 10/22/2019 3:50:08 AM

Imagine having a book. And the book being in an African library. This thread is essentially like claiming that 'the white man didn't give us our library' . While this may or may not be true. How relevant and what is the point of your claims; if foreign councils decided which books should be included in the library, AND if all of the books inside the library were created abroad. Some arguments you realise are defeated before they begin. And becomes a waste of time Haile I To all Black people: Don't be scared. Come out of the Bible. It's time. You can do IT. Africa has millions of indigenous cosmologies and paradigms which can give you everything the Bible or Christianity would and more.... You never know mYbe you will even prefer it.

Messenger: Jahcub Onelove Sent: 10/22/2019 1:40:06 PM

GARVEYS AFRIFCA said, "Technically, the oldest version of this collection of secondary and tertiary works would be maybe the Septuagint + the Antithesis put together or read in unison. Both completed and internationally available before Ezana ever uttered the wordsound Jesus." The Septuagint is the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible only, it does not have have the New Testament writtings in it. And the Bible in Ethiopia is still older than the copy of the Septuagint. GARVEYS AFRICA said, "In terms of 'complete and full' version.... What is this? Some Bible believers completely refute any notion of New Testament being a valid part of any Bible. Who are you to tell them their versions are not full and complete?" I am speaking of having both old and new testaments within the Bible as I had said. I never said any said any Bible was not full and complete. However, it should be obvious that the Bible with the most books is more full and complete. GARVEYS AFRICA said,"And it can't be argued that Christianity came to Ethiopia via foreign, European / middle Eastern influence according to the Bible and according to history Bible says Philip converted the first Ethiopian. Philip was not an African..." I would reason that Jerusalem and the Middle East are in Africa. Also that the Ethiopian Philip converted was an Ethiopian Jew, as he was in Jerusalem to pray. Philip may not have been African, Christianity however is African. Did you watch the video?

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 10/22/2019 3:38:43 PM

The Septuagint is older than the Ethiopian Bible. The septuagint was the first translation of the Hebrew 'protocanon'... That's why I mentioned it With the antithesis. Both making up early translations of OT / NT respectively both written before the Ethiopian Bible The septuagint was produced 3rd century BC I have told you the names of the various councils and influences into the selection of the 81 books of the Ethiopian Bible. These councils took place in the 4th century AD... Of course After Ethiopians official adoption of Christianity as the state religion. There is at least 500 years after the septuagint before Ethiopians began to Think of producing a Bible.....

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