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Is Selassie God?

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Messenger: Angel in Zion Sent: 10/23/2019 8:03:16 PM
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From what I see these few white people that are on a Rastafarian forum are a bunch of religious people that are not spiritual. I grew up christian, but it was spiritual knowledge of Haile Selassie that made me become Rasta. The spiritual experiences with christian people who decided to call me a sorcerer because they do not know the spiritual realm exists have helped me understand that they refuse to change the life they live because they have been taught that J.C has died for their sins, so they are free to sin. That will get you no spiritual growth. I have been dealing with these people for 25 years and it is pointless. Without that spiritual devotion they will remain lost. After they experienced things with me, I got journalist and people from the church after me. They say that my gifts are not of God. I find they are the one's that are crazy. God is good to us.


Messenger: The Nomad Sent: 10/23/2019 10:57:18 PM
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Ok, from most replies I can see how this is going. It's the same old "depends what you define as God" and everything gets skewed and pulled apart to suit the answer the poster can't directly answer. It's like asking politicians something, you never get a straight answer as they wont just commit to saying yes or no.

And then you have the cynical digs:

"You won't overstand because you're white."

"You're always going be Godless as you're European"

Who said anything about being white? Seriously, take a step back and look at your posts. Those of you, and you know who you are, you are directly being racist. And you think you have a right to be! Have you heard yourselves?

And Ninja, seriously man, you say, "it's your own faults, you've only got yourself to blame because of what happened half a millenium ago by your ancient white great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great x25 grand-parents"
I'm obviously para-phrasing there but words to that effect. How does anyone even know what color I am? And if I was white, what the hell was it to do with me what happened 4-500 years ago? I wasn't a Colonist.

The vast majority of colored people have an inate hatred of white people and that's a fact. And you stretch and skew away from Selassie's spoken words about racism and mould them into your own negative vibrations. None of the posts on this thread correlate in any way to Selassies' teachings.

Everyone knows on here what I'm meaning when I'm asking if they believe that Selassie is/was God. God as a creator the Earth, the Universe. Yes--or--No? It's that simple. No need to duck and dive the question.




Messenger: CarterBlunt Sent: 10/23/2019 11:18:45 PM
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Actually, those responses are pretty concrete, I think I get what you mean and what you don't mean by "god". A big part of it is the culture you grew up in. Someone from the US is more likely to put him as part of the trinity, native born Africans might view him more in the Kim Jong sense, and then you have areas where quite a few are atheistic. Since it's always been a connected movement, these ideas mix between cultures, and since the "dogma" is more about health and dignity, beliefs about the supernatural or cultural ideals become just a matter of preference. I think the problem with the question is you would have to find a Rasta who believes in a supernatural interpretation.

I do remember you mentioning Rasta was more about lifestyle, and not religion, but I hadn't really considered the reasons why that might be the case. I guess I can be less frustrated on this topic now.

And yeah, sometimes the other white people on here say some crazy borderline-racist stuff, but I probably do the same thing at times, just in different ways. I like to point out non-African slaves, black indentured servants who went on to become slave owners, and irrelevant info like "slavery originated in Africa" just to beat home a point when I feel like a "white devil" narrative is being promoted. But that's just me trying to find the quickest line from point A to point B in cutting through a bias.


Messenger: The Nomad Sent: 10/23/2019 11:48:53 PM
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I get that Carter bro, but this is what I mean when I say there's no sense in some of these so-called Rasta's:

Quote:
"From what I see these few white people that are on a Rastafarian forum are a bunch of religious people that are not spiritual. I grew up christian, but it was spiritual knowledge of Haile Selassie that made me become Rasta. The spiritual experiences with christian people who decided to call me a sorcerer because they do not know the spiritual realm exists have helped me understand that they refuse to change the life they live because they have been taught that J.C has died for their sins, so they are free to sin. That will get you no spiritual growth."
End of quote:

Now that there is an instance of someone who REALLY seems lost to me, yet is trying to say I'm the one who's lost. For instance, the fact that Selassie himself was a staunch Christian (we all know that) need I say more?


Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 10/24/2019 2:58:34 AM
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Is Selassie I God?

InI told you immediately he is the Almighty, he is a divine manifestation of InI and the central nucleus rallying point for all Rastafari

You claim that is riddle talk and you seem Set on the word God despite its many explained difficulties....

So then I and others have given you the Direct answers you wished for as you didn't want to change the question to a better one....

So is Selassie I God? To repeat:

Yes as per Meriam Webster 3rd and 4th definitions and a subjective interpretation of the 1st definition of God. Or Cambridge or the American dictionaries 1st and 2nd definitions undeniably and subjectively the 3rd definition. And so on.... And so on...... XP Ninja went to the effort of even copying and pasting some of those dictionary definitions for you.....


That's as direct an answer as your going to get. Others have answered similarly. Do not run from truth


Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 10/24/2019 3:13:51 AM
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"the fact that Selassie himself was a staunch Christian (we all know that) need I say more?"


You probably shouldn't say more. Haile Selassie I, Jesus Christ, Mohammad, Buddha.... Show me any examples where these people sit down and praise THEMSELVES? How would that look? Does this seem like an intelligent thought? Was Jesus a Christian or a Jew?

Are we talking to a child / teen?

My personal beliefs aside... Who told you that one can't be a Rastafari and a Christian at the same time without any contradiction?

And seeing as InI have provided so many answers for the I..... What is your belief of God?

Thanks


Messenger: Angel in Zion Sent: 10/24/2019 3:51:13 PM
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Nomad my brother, believe me when Selassie came to me in spirit it made me question things because I was raised as a christian. But all the spiritual experiences I had alone and with other witnesses made me grow stronger as a Rasta. Not lost but found. I have said this several times it is your spiritual power that gives you that insight of the Almighty. I am not combative like you guys. I have said it is your spiritual growth that helps you overstand or understand. Do you have that spiritual connection or you just believing what you have been taught? My youngest son and I had a vision that an earthquake was coming. He woke up screaming and crying because he did not know what was going on. I did see him in the vision but I thought it was just a dream. He said to me daddy I saw you in the dream and the ground was shaking. I told him that was a vision son but earthquakes do not happen like that here in Virginia. One week later there was an earthquake in the DC Northern Va area with the epicenter being in Mineral Va. We saw it come before it came. I grew up with this gift but did not know my son would be able to see what I can see. Knowing his Majesty in the spiritual realm has helped me see many events before they happen. That is why I ask the question of christian's can you see things before they come. 100% of the time the answer is no. So what am I doing different than the average christian? I watch what I eat, I follow my ten commandments, I stay way from sin as best as I can in a sinful nation. I meditate once a day to clear my head of conversations like this where people refuse to make a change in their life to find an answer that they say is not being answered. The is for you to find out for yourself if there is truly an interest. From you words so far, it has nothing to do with spiritual, it is religious.


Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 10/24/2019 6:40:37 PM
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I don't usually say "overstand" but overstand these things:

1. You cannot remove blackness or black liberation from Reggae or Rastafari

2. black liberation doesn't equate to "Reverse racism"

3. whites having a tendency to share commonalities isn't a racist pov but rather an understanding of basic cultural norms.

4. not seeing whites in general as spiritual isn't an attack. Instead, it's basically that whites (culturally) are less likely to FEEL spirituality the same way and mostly approach it intellectually at first. Overstand that this isn't necessarily a negative thing but being too far on either tendency (spiritual or intellectual/religious) can cause one to miss things more accessible to the other side.

5. we can recognize our differences without being unfriendly or malicious. Don't jump to the conclusion that we don't accept you, that your not welcome, that we don't value you or your opinions. Assumptions only help prejudicial thinking.

6. overstand the difference between personal and corporate application. If you're white, you're not uniquely white. So when we refer to whites we're not just talking about you and its not meant to be personal.

7. we didn't make up or invent the idea of race at all. We are merely forced to react to it and treat it as its own culture that doesn't include us.

8. don't be so offended that you cannot see the point. There's no reason to defend your ancestors and what they did. No one is asking you to either and no one is suggesting that you feel bad on their behalf.

9. we all have to live with the world and the decisions of previous generations. It should be a lesson that we learn from and make sure we correct any wrongs, not just for ourselves, but our community and our children.

10. recognizing the past and what happened and its effects on the current world is unavoidable and we don't have the luxury of pretending certain things and events didn't happen. That doesn't mean we personally hate or blame YOU. I can't speak for all black people but I dare say most of us agree on this.

11. and if everybody is looking at history that happened thousands of years ago it would be foolish not to consider what happened decades and centuries ago. Even if you believe yourselves too wise or conscious to repeat errors of the past, not every white person feels the same and we're the ones who suffer as a result. Not you.

If you understand these things I guarantee you we will get along. If not, then you don't know me and that ignorance will cause friction, not any kind of "hatred" you mistakenly think is in my heart. I deal with the real.


Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 10/24/2019 7:30:07 PM
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Nomad: And Ninja, seriously man, you say, "it's your own faults, you've only got yourself to blame because of what happened half a millenium ago by your ancient white great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great x25 grand-parents"
I'm obviously para-phrasing there but words to that effect. How does anyone even know what color I am? And if I was white, what the hell was it to do with me what happened 4-500 years ago? I wasn't a Colonist.



Who cares what you were personally? I would love to be purely and only judged on the content of my character too but even on a Rastafarian website I got a white dude consistently lying about me because he thinks he knows me because I'm black. And doesn't understand he's using and reacting to stereotypes. And then there's this other dude who tells us we were dealt a shit hand (being born as the descendants of slaves? And talking about songs of social oppression how is race NOT part of what you were implying?) as part of the context of the question about who Selassie was/is. But understand when I talk about "white people"... and I dare say this is true of every black person on Earth, we are not talking about every single individual who identifies as white. People get offended so quickly over so little as if they're the ones who got lynched; who had people picnicking with their children to watch them get hung or burned and took parts of their bodies home as souvenirs. So stop being so damn sensitive!

We know that not all whites owned slaves. Just like all white aren't racist. We don't need you to apologize or run political interference for your race. Listen to what's being said and try to understand the point. When you say stuff like "the vast majority of colored people" you sound like a racist from 1954 Alabama. I wish there was a class you could all take called "Understanding the Black Man". Lesson 1. Stop calling us "colored". We've adapted to using terminology like "people of color" but it's actually ridiculous and tiresome to keep hearing it from you. Moreover the idea that you know what's in the heart of the "vast majority" who you obviously haven't interviewed or polled simply underscores the ignorance that is totally avoidable by asking simple questions instead of imagining that you already know the answer. And to further say "that's a fact" really shows you have no idea but aren't opposed to making baseless claims about people you don't know who don't look like you. That's the very core of racism.

You want us to not think on racial lines or even talk about race and meanwhile you're using Selassie to tell to tell us how we should behave on racial issues and you don't see the huge problem with a white person telling black people how to act. Next you'll tell me you didn't mean it that way and that maybe I'm the one being too sensitive. But if anyone has the right to be sensitive between the two of us, guess what, it ain't you.

You said "only around 5-10 percent of people who claim to be rastafari are 'color blind'". This is a common mistake white people make and one of the 'tells' that someone is white (again.. shared cultural tendencies). Being 'color blind' is a white thing. Black people never asked for that. In fact, the claim of 'color blindness' offends me. You want me not to see my own damn color? You need to see color. You can't appreciate it if you can't see it.

Acting blind to something so obvious is like pretending it isn't true and feels like rejection. How do you understand the first thing about someone when you are actively pretending they aren't black? Ridiculous. We want you to see blackness and learn to appreciate it. We're not ashamed of it so why would we want to hide it? We only ever have to hide it to better blend into a world that judges us for being black and uses that to deny us rights, freedoms, and opportunities. But pretending someone isn't black is kind of like an indictment and an insult; as if there's something wrong with it that we need to pretend. So what am I? Clear? No, I'm black. I'm very black. My skin is brown but I am very much black. And the pride I have as a black man is the same pride white people tried to beat out of us. So see me in my full glory. What whites said was a curse in my greatest blessing.

Saying that "Everyone knows on here" what you mean when you're asking if we believe Selassie is/was God... This is exactly why you got the answers you got. Because you can't use YOUR definition when other people are using another and expect them to be like... "no, he isn't God" when that is the terminology floating around Rastafarianism to some degree. But everyone cannot speak for the exact beliefs of everyone else because sharing a carbon copy of the same beliefs is not what makes someone Rasta. So just as you cannot push YOUR idea of God onto other people, we cannot do the same to each other. And you're asking us to give an answer sufficient TO YOU (answer TO YOU) on behalf of our community. So you're wrong on a few fronts. Now you have a choice. You can either accept being wrong and try to understand what God means to OTHER people whose beliefs you're asking about. Or you can struggle, trying to force people to use your meaning and version of God as their answer. Let's see how far you get with that. But the question has been answered at this point by multiple people. If you don't like it that doesn't seem to be our problem.


Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 10/24/2019 8:00:25 PM
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Carter: And yeah, sometimes the other white people on here say some crazy borderline-racist stuff, but I probably do the same thing at times, just in different ways. I like to point out non-African slaves, black indentured servants who went on to become slave owners, and irrelevant info like "slavery originated in Africa" just to beat home a point when I feel like a "white devil" narrative is being promoted. But that's just me trying to find the quickest line from point A to point B in cutting through a bias.


Bless you for your honesty. That's what we appreciate. I like you. There is an element that you seem to understand that many other whites do not. You are someone I could work with and we can learn from each other. Some people don't come here for that though. And so we really have to see the heart and feel your spirit. I personally hope you stick around.

My 2 cents worth of advice to you: There are unintelligent black folk out there but a lot of us, especially those who are more conscious, tend to be more intelligent. You should always just assume that we know more about racism and the history of slavery than you do. I'm not saying that there aren't some black people who think 70+ percent of whites owned slaves or that there aren't black people out there who don't know that there were some black slave owners. The problem with these arguments is that they tend to be for the purpose of trying to prove equivalence.

The problem with that is there is no real equivalence to racially based slavery. I don't care what you've heard. Because these same arguments are used to make other whites feel better about American history and to feel less empathy for black people. But what you call slavery in Africa wasn't the same. The same way we talked about different definitions of the word "God" and what that means to most people in English vs what it meant and how it was used in Hebrew... the same is true of the word slavery. That is a European word, not an African word. So we didn't define what we did as "slavery". Europeans did that. How could we have defined a word in your language? If you research you will find that Africans had indentured servants. You can call this debt based slavery but the word "slavery" has come to mean something vastly different in the modern age. I can't say no one ever hit a servant since the bible addresses this issue. But that is exactly why you can't assume it was permissible or commonplace. The addition of race was used to dehumanize African slaves. This process of dehumanization allowed for inhumane treatment and conditions. In the bible Jacob was an indentured servant to his uncle Laban. He left the situation wealthier than his uncle. The situation was closer to how we hire Mexicans. But a lot of people who didn't have land needed someone else's land to survive and so they had to trade something for it. Otherwise they were in debt to that person. Our economy isn't that much different. We simply use currency in order to trade debt/labor.

Acting like indentured service in Africa was somehow the same is a gruesome thing. People don't generally rape their employees. Even people captured in wars weren't treated as less than human. So when a white person tries to make this argument it is irritating and unless the person you're debating is blessed with patience (like I am) you may get an answer that that betrays that irritation.


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