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How does this fit in?

1 - 1011 - 2021 - 23
Time Zone: EST (New York, Toronto)
Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 2/25/2019 1:52:12 AM

Without watching. He may denounce colour
But he acknowledges African vs none African
Which is essentially the same or at least when INI say white and black

Messenger: Nesta1 Sent: 2/25/2019 3:28:10 AM

For anyone having difficulty streaming the 3-min. video link, here's the transcription of H.I.M.'s statement therein made in the aftermath of the OAU Conference of Independent Heads of State and Government, Addis Ababa, 22-25 May 1963:

"I would say that, at the Conference of Heads of Africans states, that was held last May in the capital city of Ethiopia, Addis Ababa before the signing of the Charter, I have told, in the speech I have made to the distinguished heads of state, that people who were formerly under colonialist regime, and who have suffered a great deal, must have the girth, strength of wanting to collaborate with their former masters for otherwise through vengeance and remorse, co-existence would not be possible and this would be detrimental to the preservation of international peace. I must say that black and white, as forms of speech, and as a means of judging mankind, should be eliminated from human society. Human beings are precisely the same whatever colour, race, creed or national origin they may be." (1963)

Messenger: Empress lioness 9 Sent: 2/25/2019 5:06:31 AM

In my view, Iandi liken it to the strive of Native Americans - as an example. We can know that if the first man and wombman were black and Africa was Eden then we all African in that way. However, if Native American Indians in their fight for tribal land rights were to lose that identity then they would lose all tribal based rights. Not to say any of the tribal elders are racist or that they don't allow other people's in their lands,or consider other Americans less American, but Indian native first has to be the foundation for the cause.
Just using this example in a comparative analysis.iandi was blessed enough to spend some time on a reservation and discuss these similar issues. The cause of a people can exist without undermining others. But if Americans start all calling themselves native Indians because they agree with the plight or sympathize with the history, then it takes something special from the cause. I was welcomed and treated with all respect but they still say, Indian first.. Made I no less though.
With love

Messenger: Nesta1 Sent: 2/25/2019 7:00:32 AM

Empress lioness,

If you’ll permit me, I’ll follow up on your thoughtful comparison. My lifelong friend Joe is full-blooded Navajo. Interestingly, he vehemently rejects being called an “Indian” because (1) the term is an historical misnomer (i.e., he didn’t originate from India), and (2) native Americans are comprised of many different nations of culturally & linguistically distinct people. For this reason he didn’t like to be lumped together with people from a diverse range of other tribes and called “Native American” either, but he wasn’t as vehement about that rejection as he was about the term Indian. Joe (who shared Haile Selassie’s view that “Human beings are precisely the same whatever, colour, race, creed or national origin they may be”) insisted upon being referred to as a Navajo if one was going to identify him by citing his tribal (“native American”) heritage.

Haile Selassie I was not referring to the term “African” in the subject statement. In His Majesty’s wisdom, Haile Selassie I recognized that people of the world continuing to speak using the racially-charged language of “Black” and “White” would perpetuate an age old schism and prevent them from eliminating those distinctions in dealing with one another & attaining peace; that is to say, he recognized their historically inflammatory nature and was very specific in calling for their elimination “as a form of speech and as a means of judging mankind”. Not only was His Majesty’s Wisdom in calling for this ignored back then, but it is still ignored today, 55 years later, including by some who purport to deeply respect His Majesty and His Teachings. Even some of the exchanges re: "Black" & "White" that have occurred right here on this website have caused friction and divisiveness among the participants, and bear silent witness to His Majesty’s profound foresight and Wisdom.

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 2/25/2019 7:58:55 AM

Black people of the Diaspora have always and will always refer to black and white in respect to European and African. InI have never been politically correct in Babylon language and terminology. And have always defined such for ourselves. The term black is used much less inside the continent of Africa who tend to be much more specific in terms of nationality or traditional cultural nomenclature. Just as Haile Selassie rarely was seen to use the word BLACK but OFTEN referred to "African." However for ini as PanAfricans of mixed None specific unbeknown 'African' identity many of we use the colloquial term 'black' to encompass any one who's roots originate from the continent of matter the hue or complexion. Others reject the word BLACK completely. Some reject the word African completely. But there is always a substitute words to define the SAME THING when we a talk...His Majesty included.

colloquial terms are geographically specific

And so...It shall be up to black people ... African people ...the Negro ... the Maafa ... Moorish people... Asiatic choose how to define themselves...Seeitdeh? A dehsoitdeh (meaning all the above to I is one and the same)

The empress put it nicely:.

The cause of a people can exist without undermining others.

Ones can't criticise Jamaicans for using the word BLACK to define what Haile Selassie means when HE says "WE AFRICANS" When We were taught we are West Indian and not African.... only when black people remove the effects of white supremacy from their psyche, and come to a true overstanding of their ORIGINAL nomenclature of native cultures and traditions as Africans; can we return to what was before InI ever uttered the wordsound 'black'

Of course Black is a folly term. As is African. Both are foreign to InI... I could get even more deep but let me stop.

Messenger: Empress lioness 9 Sent: 2/25/2019 9:34:56 AM

Bless, GA for the thoughtful response. I will take some time to formulate a response to ones words, as always very thought provoking. But, InI do want to say that the terms "native American and Indian were used here to make a point and InI aware that the tribes aren't fond of the terms. My stay was with the Cherokee nation and like ones Navajo friend, they felt the same. More so against Indian than native American.although not fond of either. Some used the term " first people or first nation" but since Columbus was lost and the name comes from that, they were particularly against use of indian. Here in the UK, many still refer to them as "the red indians" and that gives InI a chill through the nerves.
Will respond more soon. (Please go deeper.) :) The depth of one's reasoning assists InI inner growth.
With love, Bless

Messenger: Nesta1 Sent: 2/25/2019 11:38:09 AM

His Majesty was obviously profoundly aware of the emotional & political power of the words "Black" and "White", as nouns or adjectives, to foment anger & hostility, and to perpetuate age-old resentments. In calling for the use of "black and white as forms of speech" to be "eliminated from human society", H.I.M. was prescient in foreseeing the weaponization of those words to perpetuate historic skin-color-based animosities, and to block true reconciliation and peace.

As a Christian, Haile SelassieI was awestruck by the power of forgiveness and knew that it was the only way that mankind had any hope of realizing His Vision of a peaceful world. His Majesty clearly understood that the world's languages, and specifically English, are so rich that, even with retiring the tainted terms "black and white" from this one context, there would be no lack of words to express concepts of community, fellowship, or shared history & culture. That he singled out the the language of "black and white" to denounce was no mere fluke. He quite clearly saw the potential militancy with which the terms were already being imbued and knew that it would only get worse.

His Majesty was an idealist, a man of peace, a man of Love. Many would say that He was simply naive to think that anyone would heed His exhortations to stop viewing people along racial boundaries and to truly make "the color of a man's skin of no more significance than the color of his eyes." I real-eyes that I have lost the debate with a tiny group here to champion His Majesty's noble vision in this particular regard, and that they will continue to insist upon pushing to the forefront the divisive language which His Majesty sought to see "eliminated from human society". It just seems to me that, at a minimum, even as some exercise their fully legitimate right to defy His Majesty's position in this regard, they should not belittle those who heard & understood clearly what He was asking of us and who have sought to comply with it.

Haile Selassie I was a Holy man and He was a Visionary. I had naively hoped that I would live see His Vision put to reality in my own life (and it still can be on a personal basis), but the human race as a whole is not yet ready to let go of animosity and resentment based upon historic injustice, and immerse itself in forgiveness and, as H.I.M put it, "to establish new relationships, devoid of any resentment and hostility". I can accept that. Perhaps it will be the triumph of the next generation to see His Majesty's vision brought to reality.

"Let us not recoil in hatred against those who, even while protecting their freedom from bias and prejudice, reveal by their actions that the poison of racial discrimination has left its lasting effects, and by this reaction reveal that we, no less than they are prey to unreasoning emotion, that we, no less than they are susceptible to that virus which is called intolerance." -Haile Selassie

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 2/25/2019 12:15:38 PM

And there we have it

To claim the millions of black people using the word BLACK are racially discriminate is clearly flawed and errorsome.

"only when black people remove the effects of white supremacy from their psyche, and come to a true overstanding of their ORIGINAL nomenclature of native cultures and traditions as Africans; can we return to what was before InI ever uttered the wordsound 'black'

Of course Black is a folly term. As is African. Both are foreign to In"

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 2/26/2019 3:50:59 AM


Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 2/26/2019 3:57:26 AM

Re: Native Indians.

Many mainly older people of the Carribean who refuse to name themselves as African will call themselves West Indians still. And then there is still the West Indian cricket team...

Many brown skinned individuals in the Carribean are called Redskin. I know of at least two Jamaicans who go by the name Redman. Even Malcolm X was named 'Red' in his youth. For light skinned people in Jamaica they would be called 'white' ... but still referred to and included when talking about 'Black people'

It's not that deep.
It doesn't automatically reflect racial indiscrimination

As hinted in my previous post.
It more reflects lack of overstanding as a result of 500 years of Chattel slavery and African intermixing whereby InI here in the West both:

1. Do not know of any African tribal or traditional nomenclature to refer to such as Igbo or Yoruba
2. Are a mixture of hundreds of different African tribal ethnicities and so to choose 1 as a name or label would be false. Hence we use terms whether black or PanAfrican or African or Asiatic (etc) in reference to the holistic nature of our mixed ethnic interAfrican background.

This doesn't in any way go against the teachings of His Majesty who HIMSELF used the ETHNIC label "African" in his speech 10000s of times. And as already said, i find continental Africans use the word BLACK much less than Africans outside of the continent as they both know they are collectively African and know their individual interAfrican ethnicities. For InI people it is only YESTERDAY we began to globally accept that we are African..... we needed SOME form of label to describe our collective experience etc in Garvey days this was Negro and more recently Black and hopefully going forward just African but many of InI still to this day still refute our African heritage

But to use black for InI people is not from a place of racial discrimination not so on our part. Maybe that should be pointed more toward the European...

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Haile Selassie I