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Messenger: Humble one Sent: 2/5/2015 2:19:38 AM
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Dear All,

http://jah-rastafari.com/forum/message-view.asp?message_group=4076&start_row=61

Just thought I would post this old thread on homosexuality.

@ShivaJiva; it did come out wrong what I said before; no I don't think we should guide gays to become straight. I disagree with babylon in pretty much every vestige, but not with giving gay people their right to be gay.

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Someone said to warn ShivaJiva not to post anymore on this because her OPinion is highly offensive to rastas. Well, what do you think this site is for? Everyone agreeing and never challenging beliefs? No, it is a reasoning forum. You are bound to encounter someone like ShivaJiva in this case who thinks completely different on this particular subject.

Don't censor him out! If you believe in the fire burn then surely why would you be scared of him running course with the arguments?

All the best,

Joe


Messenger: Humble one Sent: 2/5/2015 3:02:40 AM
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WARNING; some posts on the previous thread I linked you to are... an eye opener to say the least with some very explicit sexual content towards the middle.

All the best,

Joe


Messenger: Shasatabe Makonnen Sent: 2/5/2015 8:15:21 AM
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Iman nah bow to babylon works yuh kno. Blaze up di fyah pon dem BATTYman to bloodclaat cho


Messenger: Black heart Sent: 2/5/2015 8:28:59 AM
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Dear Joe. No one has censored him out. why are u rushin to dat?


Messenger: Black heart Sent: 2/5/2015 8:35:05 AM
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Dear Joe. No one has censored him out. why are u rushin to dat?


Messenger: Bobobinghi Jahcub Sent: 2/5/2015 9:01:34 AM
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Joe this is a reasoning forum,but you wouldnt accept ones coming here and dissing king selassie because its dissing rastafari,so coming here and promting homosexuality is just as bad seen.same way it is not respectful to go on a muslim forum and dis there beliefs,ones have to have manners and discipline in every situation seen.


Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 2/5/2015 2:12:35 PM
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Gays are mentally ill or maybe evil and sometimes both. A fish is a fish and its not fe we thing. No apology. We don't promote nastyness we don't promote slackness and we don't promote anything against man and wombman law; Life. What a disrespect to mumma. Shiva, gays have never been accepted or promoted in any of the significant african cultures in history or in Africa today. Everything has a balance and your references can't tan next to the volume of African paradigms whe totally and literally burn out homosexualism. Nor can they compare to the machine effort in today's western society to push effeminisation and homosexualism, sub.....very very sub consciousLy and overtly. No we don't agree with everything in african history nor Hebrew. But that one.... 👍; African thing is about family a Wha do you man? To say homosexual livity has happened in Africa and to say it is an African thing is two different thing. If you cant see that and a defend homosexual argument all the while its a worries fiyah don't wobble

Live clean


Messenger: RAS NATE Sent: 2/5/2015 2:39:31 PM
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Therefore, I have to logically assume that to compare homosexuality with pedophilia has no precedence. The only similarity is in your mind;
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It's not just me who sees a similarity between the two abominations.

- In a 1970 national survey, more than 70% of respondents agreed with the assertions that "Homosexuals are dangerous as teachers or youth leaders because they try to get sexually involved with children" or that "Homosexuals try to play sexually with children if they cannot get an adult partner." -

It is normal for people to assume that all unnatural sexual preferences and abominations are somehow related and come from the same source wich is immorality.Again,the fact that there may not be an explanation why it's immoral doesn't mean anything.Can you explain why cruelty towards someone else is wicked or why being racist is wicked?one could say it's wicked because it makes another person suffer or something like that but it still doesn't explain why it's wrong.The same with gays,it's a matter of common sense and moral discrimination.

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I don't quite understand your analogy with the serial killer and alcohol. But your argument is that simply because Babylon typically unjustly condemns people, it is not always unjust?
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Actually it was a response to your argument that those who condemned homosexuality also condemned other things wrongfully.What you are saying is they also condemned because of race and they condemn against herb etc.
But what I'm saying is this doesn't prove all the things they condemn/ed are wrongfully condemned.The analogy is a serial killer commits wickedness by killing people but his condemning of alochol doesn't make alcohol something good.So he commited wickedness by killing but he condemned alcohol justfully.
It is to point out your analogy of "the bible also said this and that" or "people who condemned homosexuality also did this and that" does not mean anything.

I see you are out of this thread.
And I I-self don't see any reason to continue debating that wich is obvious to I-man.
But I just thought that I would answer on this things.

Ever forward




Messenger: ShivaJiva Sent: 2/5/2015 3:21:21 PM
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I'm not going to elaborate on my opinion anymore, there are plenty of other people here who have opinions to share as well. But I do want to clarify something and make a brief point.

@Ark I

Thank you for sharing your perspective in a respectful way without being spiteful or questioning my character as a black person.

Even though I disagree, I want to ask you if you have any control over who you find attractive or who you develop feelings for? I'm assuming you're a male, but switch the analogy if you arent--if you have two females in front of you, one you are attracted to and one who you are not, can you magically become unattracted to the one that attracts you? Can you magically become attracted to the other one? If you come to know someone, a womban, and you fall in love with her personality and character, can you control your feelings of attachment? You love who you love, it is not a choice. You cannot choose who you are attracted to.

@RAS NATE

Please be aware that, also in 1970, only 12% of the American population believed that herb should be legal. The other 88% believed it was immoral, dirty, unhealthy, and had significant risks for your health. In 2014, 58% said that they support legalization and that it has significant potential for medicinal use. It had been 48% just one year before. This overwhelming shift of consciousness is due to the innate human ability to use Reason. Even Babylon has been able to recognize the need to analyze and self reflect from time to time.
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Thats all I want to say. I'll butt out and let others get the mic.

Otherwise, let me clarify that I'm not saying that everyone needs to approve of homosexuality. I'm just saying that you cannot be intolerant simply because of your beliefs, and unfortunately I see much intolerance towards homosexuals in the Ras community. Nobody has to like it, and people can think whatever they want about it...the fact of the matter is that you must be tolerant, you cant be violent towards a group of people because of your own personal opinions--particularly opinions that are metaphysical assumptions that can't be proved such as "homosexuals are evil" or "being homosexual is immoral". You have every right to think that, but as soon as you deny someone else from their rights because of your belief you are no different from the downpressor. Morality is not an objective "thing". Everybody views it and approaches it differently. Therefore we will never have societies in which everyone has a static and uniform set of beliefs. Many have tried, and history shows that they have always failed. Modern conflict which we see and are appalled at every single day is the direct consequence of what happens when humans fail to use Reason and allow their intolerance to bring out the worst of their character. This community actively condemns Babylon and other societies or religious groups when they quarrel because of their inability to live with one another in peace, their inability to Reason. Consider now that there are obviously people, both heterosexual and homosexual, who do not believe that homosexuality is unnatural or evil. In what way is the one who calls that we fiyah burn the homosexuals different from the Christian who calls for the elimination of Islam; or the various sects of Islam declare supremacy in their beliefs over one another; or the tribal fighting that Rastafari so often condemns which occurs in Africa? If you cannot see the parallels here than surely you have not truly looked. White supremacists have and continue to use their own religious beliefs to justify their actions. They justify their racist beliefs with opinions that are outrageous and the societies and laws and religions which they create reflect this. The brutality faced by our people was entirely right in their minds; to them it was (and is) an obvious metaphysical truth that white people are physically, technologically, and morally superior. Is that not a lesson to us all? Think whatever you want to think, but intolerance is simply intolerance. I don't care what beliefs you have but nobody has the right to deny another human of right or life because of those beliefs. For a community which prides itself on its ability to Reason, I would suggest a good deal of self-reflection and humility.

Critical thinking is the core of what it is to Reason, and to Reason is what makes us human. Our ability to self reflect is what separates us from animals, what separates us from machines, what separates us from the downpressors.

Bless Up For Reason


Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 2/5/2015 3:45:31 PM
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Some people don't get a reasoning. Paedophile rapist gays and bullbukka as example of ones Whe gone way past a reasoning meditation. Or we supposed to chill relax sit down and live peacefully with them two. Sometime is not all about peace you know fiyah. Sometime it necessary to fight for we know we are confident in the victory of good over evil. You see it? Why RASTA must agree with and tolerate wickedness?


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