JAH - Questions about fundamental Rasta tenets (HIM and the issue of imperialism/colonialism, pan-Africanism, nature of God as black male)

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Questions about fundamental Rasta tenets (HIM and the issue of imperialism/colonialism, pan-Africanism, nature of God as black male)

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Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA

Sent: 1/2/2015 4:17:02 PM

Start reasoning and moving around Rasta in real life if the I has a genuine interest and love for black people. Primary experience is really best

Haile

Messenger: Black heart

Sent: 1/2/2015 11:29:41 PM

Ises bro Shivajiva. De I haffe eliminate de slavish mentality dat deh's any Black man dat can be an outsider ina mama land. Africa fo Africans @ home & abroad so no Black man is a foreigner ina Africa. I man see de I idea of God & I must seh dat nuff Rastas do uphold de same belief as de I. As far as indigenous African culture is concerned deh is no Jesus or Christ & no man amongst man dat is viewed as superior to all mankind. B free to sight de creator de way de I feels it. One Black Love

Messenger: Black heart

Sent: 1/3/2015 2:54:35 AM

De idea dat HIM is de most supreme being on earth stem from de sky God & Jesus ideology therefore it ain't indegenous African culture. Its not wrong to praise & warship His Majesty fo ones who sight HIM as almighty but de truth must not be twisted or compromised as dat is anada element of religion dat is a stumbling block to Black Idemption. Ina Africa deh are nuff kings & their role is political leadership on respective lands, so dem are respected not worshiped. No one king is above other kings

Messenger: Black heart

Sent: 1/3/2015 3:46:35 AM

When it comes to spirituality & worship, what is common in African culture is de worshiping of ancestors not kings. Worship is not realy directed to one specific person or creation object as it is common in white religion but many defferent creation objects & forces are warshiped (e.g. lightning & thunder, tornado, sun, moon & stars, rivers, plants, animals e.t.c). When ones think of Rasta Idem haffe go beyond de name Rastafari since de movement started bfore de name. Its livity not. Bless

Messenger: zion mountain

Sent: 1/3/2015 6:03:26 AM

My largest concern for
me is that of HIM though. I can
respect the influence that HIM had/
has, and that Selassie was a living
symbol for black folk across the
planet. I just can't bring myself to
equate HIM to Christ or God...in the
eyes of I, God (Jah, ultimate reality,
etc...) is bigger than our affairs here
on Earth."

Grtngs breddah,Iman seh:

Emperor Haile Selassie I

Our concept of God is founded within the Africanness of HIM Emperor Haile Selassie I NOT within the fundamentals of his christian religion. Our Rastafari God concept is found within the Ancient of the Ancient African spiritual realm, where by a king or a queen is God of the earth. Haile Selassie I is our God concept as Rastafari, when we go back to our roots, we see HIM Haile Selassie I as our God and king, we see our Empress Menen as our Goddess, thus makes a balanced ruling force.

HIM Haile Selassie I a NATURAL man, who was NOT magical, super being, he who lived like every natural man, our true Afrikan God and king Rastafari, who never walked ontop of water, he who never turned water into wine, he who never fly in a chariot but used and aeroplane, a true natural king, who wanted Afrikans to unite and to be a free nation.

As our Afrikan God concept he does NOT represent JAH/ ALLAH/ JEHOVIAH OR CHRIST!!, He is Emperor Haile Selassie, the First NOT the second of anything. He is the first who has followers who has locks, eat Ital food and being called by his pre-coronation name, Rastafari.. He was being hailed by Rastafari but he never had that pride, like most greedy men would have done, he never find anyway of using Rastafari to make a living.

We have seen his images but we have NEVER SEEN the images of JAH or Jesus/;Christ, whom some of us see HIM as their representation...

SOME WILL CALL HIM ALLAH, SOME WILL CALL HIM JESUS, SOME WILL CALL HIM JAH, BUT I WILL ALWAYS CALL HIM BY HIS RIGHTFUL NAME EMPEROR HAILE SELASSIE I OR RASTAFARI!!

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA

Sent: 1/3/2015 6:18:55 AM

^^Yes bredda, KING OF KINGS. The reason or one of the reasons Haile Selassie > any other African King is because they are not SOVEREIGN. Being a 'King' yet depending on European governance can't work in this time of liberation and redemption. The OG Rastafari who sight HIM as I and I were not Christian, that justification came later. No other African King had or has reached them heights in our time. King of Kings for real.

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA

Sent: 1/3/2015 6:35:27 AM

"But can I worship Selassie as a political figure who, though flawed, represented ideals of black autonomy from colonial forces? I could see myself 'worshipping' H.I.M in this way, but not as an incarnate of God."

- I just reread this part. If you see HIM in this way, I would argue from this alone HIM > Sky God / Christian God. Marcus aside, who else can live up to that standard of 'autonomy from colonial forces'? Difference being HIM is Royalty.

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA

Sent: 1/3/2015 1:06:52 PM

What do you suggest for governance of the land?

Messenger: VoodooRuutz

Sent: 1/3/2015 2:23:40 PM

I think dats from western propaganda!
The socalled Demoncratic world push DEMONcrazy into people minds but to I it d wusses because it's all an illusion but and unjust big eye King/Queendom is no better.
From I knowledge HIM was a good King that truly help the people tho some Ethiopians may not agree usually a diff Ethinic group who HIM anscestor were apart of also but those conflicts will spill over in the political arena like in Nigeria.

Messenger: ShivaJiva

Sent: 1/3/2015 3:57:09 PM

Wise words from all, once again.

Garvey, yes I agree I need to look more into traditional African spirituality. It would also help for I to connect with Rasta groups in my area, as mentioned primary experience is essential.

I see where you're coming from, Black heart, and lots of good points. But I don't think my opinion of repatriation to Africa is steeped in white supremacy or slave-mentality. Historically speaking nearly every repatriation attempt has come at the expense of "locals", and I think it would be insensitive to those who are still living in Africa and still face downpression if millions of people began to migrate there and take up land with no regards to them. I am not saying that black people do not belong in Africa, we all do...it is our home.And yes, there is lots of land in Africa but InI must remember how land has been privatized and roped off through history. There is a social and political reality to the way in which we relate to land, and I think that must be taken into consideration at the risk of just downpressing more indigenous peoples. If one looks at the history of Shashamane, it is well known that the local peasants protested the Rastas. At one point they dug up all of the Rastas freshly sewed corn and re-sewed all of their own seed. They were very upset that Selassie ignored the plights of the peasant class and instead gave 500acres to a group of people who, though rightfully African, were perceived as outsiders. Repatriation would have to be done in a way that acknowledges the imminent socio-political reality of the region, any attempts otherwise run the risk of furthering a legacy of colonialism and conflict. I think Isreal/Palestine is a perfect example of what can happen if one ignores these issues. Just my humble opinion, and I really appreciate all of you helping I to come to overstand some of these topics.

zion mountain, thank you for your post. I have been having difficulty understanding the distinction between royalty and worship and that helped clear some things up for I.

VoodooRuutz, what do you think is western propoganda? HIM was well respected and it is not my intention to downplay his influence. My critique is that the good work he was able to do was vastly limited by the fact that he ruled via capitalistic monarchy. As an individual he was a gentle and astounding person, yet there were still those who were marginalized and downpressed by his regime simply because of the nature of regimes in the first place. These people spoke out and they were ultimately silenced...I think it is very important not to overlook this at the risk of discrediting ourselves. I am not saying Selassie was not a good man, and that he should not be respected as an important African figure.

Garvey you ask what I suggest for governance of the land. I do not believe in hierarchies. I believe any form of hierarchy creates dis-empowerment and presupposes a lower/bottom class. I think hierarchy presupposes ideas of "original sin", in that humans are born guilty and we require the rule of others to keep us in check. I believe that individuals are capable of ruling themselves and making their own decisions. We are not born "faulted" or "sinful". I do not even believe in democracy as it is understood in the West, as democracy can be a vehicle for the tyranny of the majority. Let us not forget that racism in the West is/was carried out through the silent consent of the majority...so in democratic rule, as long as there is a minority there will be oppression. I believe in small communities that are interdependent on one another but 100% autonomous from each other. No centralized government, each community governs itself through consensus. Everyone has a say and no decisions are made unless everyone within the community feels comfortable with the decision. Consensus means we need to let go of the idea of nations or massive centralized governments to make decisions for us. Consensus works on small scales, but it is small groups of individuals who make up community at large. There is much literature about black co-ops and the politics of consensus that are good reading/info for those who might be more suspicious of the concept of consensus. It has quite a lot of historical context to back it up and it is something that is used daily in organizing spaces now...it does work and though it is a slow process I genuinely see it as one of the few/only ways to rule in a way which does not marginalize anybody. In my humble opinion, as long as there are emperors there is downpression. As long as there is rule of the many by the will of the few, there is downpression. We are capable of ruling ourselves, it is our birthright.

Blessings and love

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