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Questions about fundamental Rasta tenets (HIM and the issue of imperialism/colonialism, pan-Africanism, nature of God as black male)

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Messenger: ShivaJiva Sent: 12/31/2014 3:58:32 PM
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Greetings everyone!

I am a young black male who has been attracted to the ideas of Rastafari since I began listening to reggae music many years ago.

I am a very spiritual person. I had some direct spiritual experiences a few years back which forever changed my life. I was initially drawn to Eastern contemplative practices such as Buddhism and Hinduism, and though I still study Kashmir Shaivism and Advaita Vedanta (non-dual sects of Hinduism) and find them profound in their knowledge, I find that my not being of Indian descent creates a sort of barrier between me and the tradition itself. Lately I have been seeking a path which integrates a sense of my African heritage/identity/culture with contemplative practices, meditation, and a non-dual understanding of God. Naturally I found myself drawn back to Rastafari and have been engaged in a lot of research on the subject. I love that Rastafari synthesizes a radical socio-political analysis with African identity and spirituality...for me it seems like the perfect outlet, but I'm struggling with a few things so I have some questions for the members here.

In the past year or two I have been involved with radical environmental organizing and most recently have been drawn into the struggle for black liberation. I am coming to see how dominant power structures weave a common thread in all struggles, that the fights for a clean and healthy environment are the same as the fight for racial equality, the same as the feminist struggle for women, the same fight the labor unions are engaged in etc...It is my belief that to truly challenge capitalism in an effective way, a movement must exist which addresses the intersectional nature of struggle; and it is unfortunate that many of these power structures (internalized racism, patriarchy, class elitism) bleed into movements in divisive ways. I am currently reading a book about the history of the Rastafari movement and the role that women have played, and though things have improved significantly over the years I think Rastafari is a perfect example of a powerful movement which was hampered down by its adherence to Western ideals of patriarchy and suppression of women. It seems counter-intuitive to me that a liberation movement would hinge its beliefs on concepts that are central to the power structures in which said movement is claiming to be fighting against (eg Rastafari vs capitalism/Western society).

I've also read a lot of things about the nature of Haile Selassie, Pan-Africanism, Marcus Garvey, etc...that once again ties into the problematic narrative of capitalism and colonialism. For one, I think of the obvious example of Selassie as a dominating male figure, an unelected emperor, ruler of the people. I think of Shashamane and how when Selassie granted the Rastas 500 acres of land, the surrounding peasant class paid the price and ultimately protested the "occupation". Eventually Selassie was ousted by opposing forces, and Ethiopia is now run by a supposed people's government.

Anyways...with some of this historical context in mind I have these questions:

Is it possible to practice Rastafari without believing in the literal interpretation of Selassie as God incarnate? I believe in the spiritual power and potency inherent in myth/allegory and can see a lot of value in the worship of Selassie--which I don't inherently disagree with. But can I worship Selassie as a political figure who, though flawed, represented ideals of black autonomy from colonial forces? I could see myself 'worshipping' H.I.M in this way, but not as an incarnate of God. I have a hard time bowing to someone who echoed the larger structures of imperialism in our world...I mean H.I.M stands for His Imperial Majesty, and to me that is hard to comes to term with considering Rastafari is ultimately opposed to imperialism and what it has done to black people worldwide.

Is it possible to worship God/Jah as an androgynous figure? I do not see God as male or female, and this is where I would like to integrate my understanding of Eastern philosophy with that of Rastafari. God is ultimately impossible to conceptualize or frame, and one can only come to understand God through direct experience. The Word is a necessary vehicle of course, but it is ultimately just a human construct to frame the Unknowable.

Is it possible to be a Rasta without accepting the ideas of pan-Africanism and Garvey? I see Garvey as an important historical figure and I see the 'return to Africa' movement as an important period for black self-determination, but ultimately I do not think that migrating to Zion is the solution. If the black people of the Western nations were to flock to Africa, the local populations (who are greatly impoverished) would have to deal with this massive occupation and appropriation of their land by outsiders. I think the idea, as a metaphor/allegory is beautiful and I see it as integral to the Rastafari belief, but it is possible to integrate this understanding without a literal application of it?

And finally, but less political in nature, I wanted to ask in what ways is Rastafari open to integrating other belief systems? I see religion as a vehicle for liberation and understanding, it doesn't really matter what vehicle you choose so long as it works for you and your needs. So is it all possible to take my spiritual understanding of mind, nature, and cosmos from Hinduism and supplement it with the socio-political paradigm of Rastafari? I of course have an interest in the Bible/Ible and refer to most religions for insight, but is it acceptable to combine my understanding of God in the Bible with that of The Supreme/Shiva in Kashmir Shaivism?

Thanks so much...sorry for the lengthy read. I'm looking forward to hearing the knowledge of the members here. :)

God Bless




Messenger: SunofMan Sent: 12/31/2014 11:07:57 PM
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Greetings...

In my humble opinion, worship of His Majesty should be synonymous with the principle of Guru Yoga as practiced in the dharma of Tibetan Buddhism.

Selam


Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 12/31/2014 11:33:29 PM
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Blessed Oneness I&I.
Welcome forward in JAH reasoning. It seems that the I ShivaJiva has thought through a lot of these issues and taken a stance on them. As with all living philosophies, I would hope that the I is ready to debate and amend these ideas as the I sees fit! As for the questions of whether or not a person can "be RasTafarI" and hold those ideas, no one can answer that question besides the Iself. Still, do not forget that Ras Tafari is a Real Man, and if you do not like the so called "imperialism" Haile Selasie I represents, then why go by HIS name?
Bless SonofMan Iyah, would the I like to more fully Ixplain that suggestion?
LOVE
Moah Anbesa



Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 12/31/2014 11:59:53 PM
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Make me get to I computer I got this

Rastafari
Garvey I
One black love and ipremacy


Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 1/1/2015 1:32:58 AM
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I was initially drawn to Eastern contemplative practices such as Buddhism and Hinduism, and though I still study Kashmir Shaivism and Advaita Vedanta (non-dual sects of Hinduism) and find them profound in their knowledge, I find that my not being of Indian descent creates a sort of barrier between me and the tradition itself. Lately I have been seeking a path which integrates a sense of my African heritage


The I is right. Marcus set the foundation. Black man must see 'God'* through his own eyes. African spirituality and culture for African liberation in this time. The half that for so long we were never told. This is the essence of Rastafari. It is but an added benefit that there are many similarities between Eastern practices such as that mentioned, and Rastafari, as they are both rooted in African culture from a historical point.


I am currently reading a book about the history of the Rastafari movement and the role that women have played, and though things have improved significantly over the years I think Rastafari is a perfect example of a powerful movement which was hampered down by its adherence to Western ideals of patriarchy and suppression of women. It seems counter-intuitive to me that a liberation movement would hinge its beliefs on concepts that are central to the power structures in which said movement is claiming to be fighting against (eg Rastafari vs capitalism/Western society).



Burn the book. But keep with I. Rastafari is for the UpLIFTment of the black woman and empress. Lie and slander. And what a one rastaman might do in his actions does not equate to the essence or tenant of Rasta. Rastafari isn't into any form of suppression. We don't know of such a thing. And furthermore, I sight these argument as a strategic distraction in attempt to separate the struggle in the homes,turn it into feminism etc, man v woman, Rastafari burn oppression in all form theres no splitting it up for InI people in the West we come here as one cargo. Take heed though, be mindful and weary of the sources of information out there on 'Rastafari'………Rastafari is not to be learned through internet


Is it possible to practice Rastafari without believing in the literal interpretation of Selassie as God incarnate?


A good question. But an answer is only as 'good' as the question asked, and to give a great answer you must ask a better question. King, first you have to ask yourself what you really think about GOD? You know where that word come from? What religious connotations are associated with that word. Your familiar with the Eastern practices, and seeking out an African spiritual focus, so why use European attempts at characterising and personifying the divine? God…………….. some Rasta burn 'God' impletely (SOME rasta). Come way from that idea and concepts and start with an African base. Rastaman sight the King through the eyes of the Incients, which is always in association with the divine. Mankind is commonly associated with the divine, and connection with the inner or Igher self. I can cite many examples using Axum and Kemet as reference. There has only been one Sovereign African ruler in this time to buss that seal. He is the embodiment of Black Royal INDEPENDANT Kingship to be known worldwide to the black population many who couldn't previously fathom black people in position of power let alone Sovereignty in the only African country representing Unconquered peoples of an Incient Nile Valley civilisation. He is Jah. King of Kings. I would encourage de I to research into the planned works of Haile Selassie as the Leader of the USA United States of Africa with HQ in Addis. Not the later Gaddafi version, the OG. You have many Kings in Africa and then you have the African King.
I choose to sight the divine



Is it possible to be a Rasta without accepting the ideas of pan-Africanism and Garvey? I see Garvey as an important historical figure and I see the 'return to Africa' movement as an important period for black self-determination, but ultimately I do not think that migrating to Zion is the solution. If the black people of the Western nations were to flock to Africa, the local populations (who are greatly impoverished) would have to deal with this massive occupation and appropriation of their land by outsiders. I think the idea, as a metaphor/allegory is beautiful and I see it as integral to the Rastafari belief, but it is possible to integrate this understanding without a literal application of it?



King 1.5 Billion in China. Africa > China. Africa is the largest continent by land mass. And believe you, its not every black man and woman which would entertain the possibility of repatriation. AFRICA FOR THE AFRICANS AT HOME AND ABROAD. Is a Garvey statement. But that is not all what Garvey stood for. Marcus Garvey IS the foundation for the black liberation struggle in this time for InI people domicile out here in the West. We love Marcus for that. But since that particular statement Africa has changed, NEOcolonialism has occurred. And now post neocolonialism, IMF trade barriers and china 'investment'. It is not just about 'going to Africa' and Rasta know this. As a Garveyite I know Africans MUST control African affairs, land and economics, FREE from white or any other 'hand in the pot'. The works of His Majesty. Even for Africans wishing to stay abroad, if we want power we must have a strong base. The mathematics is simple, If Africa isn't free blackman can't free.
If man isn't already then you should definitely read as much about and of Kwame Nkrumah, especially:

http://libyadiary.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/handbook-of-revolutionary-warfare-a-guide-to-the-armed-phase-of-the-african-revolution.pdf



In closing, Rastafari have many different belief systems, and each to his own. The connection is through the livity, through the culture, and through the acknowledgement of Haile Selassie I as the King of Kings and the manifestation of I in I rightful Kingly character, or any however a next Rasta may want to 'put it'

One life


Messenger: ShivaJiva Sent: 1/2/2015 1:02:39 PM
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Thanks to everyone for their detailed and thought-provoking responses. I've got quite a lot to think about!

It seems that Rastafari really focuses on individual interpretations as opposed to institutionalized dogma, which is fantastic and very reminiscent of Hinduism. My largest concern for me is that of HIM though. I can respect the influence that HIM had/has, and that Selassie was a living symbol for black folk across the planet. I just can't bring myself to equate HIM to Christ or God...in the eyes of I, God (Jah, ultimate reality, etc...) is bigger than our affairs here on Earth. While Selassie was (and is) worthy of recognition and reverence as a human historical figure, in my mind HIM's leadership was still representative of imperialism and patriarchy. I have read about his leadership and it wasn't like he was some awful ruler or dictator...but to I he still represented a type of government/rulership that I believe we must fight against. In Zion there would be no emperors. Am I alone in this belief amongst Rastafari or is this a common sentiment?

I appreciate the wisdom, and it seems that the path is for nobody to dictate, but it is something I must figure out for Iself.

A question for GARVEYS AFRICA, what do you mean by European interpretations of God? I overstand the word God is European in origin, but to I God is just a word. My overstanding of what God is based on direct experience of God--I do not adhere to European concepts of a white hetero-normative male deity. To I, God is the totality of existence. God is all. God is quite literally within each and every living thing, as our higher self.

Oh and thanks for the link! I have bookmarked it and it seems like a good read...reminds I of Blood in my Eye by George Jackson, are you familiar? George Jackson was a black revolutionary who spent most of his adult life in prison and was eventually murdered by prison guards. His book "Blood in my Eye" is his analysis of armed struggle and resistance, marxism, and violent revolution.

I have another question that is less political in nature in regards to sacraments. I smoke the herb on a regular occasion, I use it for many purposes but I find it really helps with meditation and putting me into a state of mind in which I am fully in tune with the world and my psyche. I'm wondering if other psychoactive substances are acceptable by the Rastas and if any of them have any prior historical use? My first spiritual experiences were catalyzed by the use of psychedelics (eg psilocybin, LSD, mescaline, DMT, etc...). I see them as profound tools for self-exploration and I believe that they can convert even the most materialist among us into a true seeker and believer of God from just one powerful experience...they quite literally plug you into nature in a way like nothing else that I am aware of. I understand synthetic chemicals are frowned upon, so LSD is out of the question, but what about psilocybin containing mushrooms, mescaline containing cacti, DMT containing brews, snuffs, and extracts...? Is the use of psychedelics for self-exploration frowned upon? Is there any kind of history of use of psychedelics, specifically mushrooms, in the Rastafari movement? Does anyone on this forum have any experience they would like to share?

Thanks again--Im sorry my responses are not more in depth but I have limited time. I shall be spending lots of time thinking about what has been said here.


Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 1/2/2015 2:25:55 PM
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.


Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 1/2/2015 2:30:16 PM
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If you don't see it you don't see it. I am all for the idea of Royalty. This concept is deeply seated in African culture. Your explanations of His Majesty are not at least to I, utilising an indigenous African mindset to evaluate your opinion, which is a must for InI.


Re: God. Words have definitions and etymology that our own personal inferences have nothing to do with. God is what it is, and when we left the shores of West Africa or before the white man showed up, I (I ancestors) was not talking about God. There was no God. If your talking about a 'totality of existence' what do you mean? Rasta know there is one life force present and connected (a little like animism) through the iniverse. Is this God? When I look to the definition of God this doesn't add up. You then mentioned how you couldn't view HIM as Jesus.... Good, because Jesus is as God, and I Rasta don't deal with Jesus. Haile Selassie is greater than God and Jesus, a greatness which InI can rise to. The ultimate goal here is liberation and redemption, not heaven and 'life after death.'


Bless Up

Edit: NO pyscho drug. Rasta is an Italist, Rasta don't take LSD and mushroom. How can one claim consciousness when hallucinating? I've yet to see any of that in this culture


Messenger: ShivaJiva Sent: 1/2/2015 3:59:06 PM
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Thank you for your insight :)

I definitely see where you are coming from. Admittedly, I do have much to learn about indigenous African culture. My struggle is seeing any form of rule as man-made, and any government which establishes a hierarchy is (in my opinion) inherently in opposition to the people. I see the symbolism in concepts of royalty and kingliness, but perhaps I'm just experiencing a disconnect between my spiritual and political overstandings. I think I need to learn more about African ideas of royalty before I form an opinion.

Good point there. It is important to acknowledge where words come from and how they have meanings that are autonomous from our own overstanding of them. I would call that animism you speak of God; animism is actually what initially drew me Hinduism as opposed to Buddhism, as Buddhists don't believe in a "soul". This is a big subject and I have to be brief...but God to I is what everything has arisen from and what everything will ultimately go back to. The life force that is present in all things is consciousness materialized, or 'cystalized' so to speak, but this consciousness is what makes up the entire Iniverse. It is consciousness from which all else springs, consciousness (as I see it) is the substrate of the Iniverse. I am not so interested in the pursuit of life after death; spiritual practice to I is the practice of deconditioning Iself from destructive society in addition to our own psychological tendencies which are destructive. The process of deconditioning allows I to see clearly, so to speak; to see things as they are, without the influence of human constructs, preconceived notions, or negative perspectives forced onto our psyche by dominant culture. To "see rightly" is a liberating experience in which one experiences the whole Cosmos or Iniverse as an extension of Iself--one experiences that connection in every sense of the Word, very literally all becomes One. It is the most redemptive experience, as you are liberated from all your past actions, from society, you are directly in the present moment...completely pure--all of your habitual tendencies are stripped away...So for I, I do not mind calling this sense of higher self/oneness 'God', and to I it represents the "totality of everything". Perhaps the word God does not reflect this perspective adequately?

As for psychedelics--this is a much bigger discussion than the scope of this, but I want to encourage you to look into the spiritual uses of psychedelics through history. There are many indigenous African tribes that have utilized plant psychedelics in pursuit of liberation and higher self. If it were not for these medicines I would never have begun to tread a spiritual path; they allowed I to completely rediscover Iself and the world. You ask how one can claim consciousness when hallucinating? It is unfortunate that psychedelics are associated with hallucinations, but the word "hallucinations" does not really fit with what one actually experiences during a psychedelic session--much like "God" may not be an appropriate word for what it is that I seek. To hallucinate implies to see that which is not there, while psychedelics allow us to see that which has always been there. Psychedelics break the veil. The visual experience of taking mushrooms is much like what I mention earlier of "seeing things as they are". Psychedelics heighten your senses to a point of hyper-awareness, you hear everything, taste everything, feel everything, and see everything as a part of you. Everything comes together and you experience the unity of creation. It is the most liberating experience I have ever had. And keep in mind many may ask the same about cannabis. "How can you claim consciousness when in a marijuana haze?" Well we all know how cannabis can elevate consciousness to assist us in connecting with the Iniverse, mushrooms do much the same thing but they make the connection visible. They elevate us to a point that can be much higher than the places in which cannabis can bring us; they can allow us to shed our downpressed and inhibited selves to experience the entire Iniverse as our pure selves, pure consciousness. And cannabis itself can be a "hallucinogen" at high enough doses, and is actually considered psychedelic by many.

Anyways thank you once again :) I don't mean to rant about psychoactives as I overstand they are not the central aspect of Rastafari--I was just curious if there was a connection at all, and when questioned just wanted to take a moment to explain why. Hope that's okay here.

Blessings




Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 1/2/2015 4:13:01 PM
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Then you have set your own path. There is much information out there on indigenous African spirituality and history.... And always emphasise the indigenous as in, with a none interference and influence from foreign cultures. We know Africa mainland is the source of Life and of the overstanding of that very connecting force of life or concept of 'God/s'. Dealing with the Nile Valley area (Ethiopia included) specifically one can definitely explore the Iriginal concepts of the inner 'God' and spiritual concepts at the foundation of almost if not all of today's common religions. Eastern practices included. A holistic look into the traditional African concepts of spirituality as well as your African roots are a must!

Re: drugs. Rastafari is a culture within itself and as I said I have yet to see any of which has been mentioned an acceptable part of Ital Rastafari livity. I have I reasons but that's a whole other reasoning, I think there has been a long time thread on that already: Pure fire.



More love
Live up


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