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African Holocaust

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Messenger: gideon Sent: 2/2/2005 10:51:45 AM

Well, I am doing just that. But my voice is so small. Things take time, though.
Nevertheless I do still think you are a racist. In fact racism is a big problem among people who call themselves rastas.
My goal in this post is simply to fight these racist attitudes.

If you don't believe me, look at this and other sites that say they are rastafarian and see how many times the suffering of the darkskinned people is mentioned compared to other parts of the family. In every single part of this world the same thing has happened, but you won't find people who call themselves rastas talking much about American Indians, Mayans, Aztecs, Aborigenes in Australia and the list goes on. But for you it is always about Ham.

I want to big up CNN and CBS for showing us about the suffering of the Kurds, the Chechians, and much more. At least they are talking about things that are happening today instead of ancient history.

I saw those same pictures in school by the way. I learned all about the slave trade etc in school. But the Kurds were never mentioned, and the Jews weren't mentioned either. The only way I know about them is because of TV.

Messenger: gideon Sent: 2/2/2005 11:24:11 AM

When I was seven years old I went to a new school and the teacher was filling out a form or something and she was confused about my "race", so she asked me my race. But I had never heard the term before, so I told her I didn't understand.
So she said, "Well, I am Indian, and that person over there is African, so what are you?"
I picked up a pattern in what she was saying, so I said "American", because I had been told I was American because I was born there.
In the end she couldn't communicate her question in a way I could understand so she gave up.

Someone recently posted something saying that everything we believe is something that we have been taught. This is true, except that the person left out that we are also taught from the inside by the holy spirit and not only from external sources.

Anyway, my point is that if you had never been taught to think of people according to race you would not know to identify people that way. If you don't believe me, here is proof: Consider all the other differences between people, like the pitch of their voice, their height, the size of their ears, the length of their arms relative to their height. Any one of these characteristics could be used as a categorization and a point of division. Also, if you teach a child from a young age to categorize people that way the child will grow to see people according to those categories.

The point is that every time you talk about African history as something in any way distinct from any other part of human history you are reinforcing an arbitrary point of division that historically has been used as a means of division of our people.
The owners of the TV networks identify themselves to a degree with the Jewish suffering, and that is because they are confused. They do not see the unity of all people and they got tricked into the racist point of view.
But for you to respond by highlighting the suffering of another racial group is just adding to the mistake.

Please understand my point before you respond.

Messenger: Dreadnut Sent: 2/2/2005 4:32:09 PM

What is ancient History? What is ancient? The problems of today are based on the lack of overstanding of or history. Why do you think that the people have lost their roots? A man without his history is like a tree without its roots. And Rastafari was they cry of black people. But you are right bredren, there are many people that want to make the point that Afirca is the worst so it should be our only focus. But what we must remember though, is that until Afirca has been freed then the rest of the world will not see progress. Africa is the root my lord, so unless man tends the roots of his crop they will die out. The libration of Africas at home and abroad is a must! So say Marcus Mossiah, So say Haile Selassie I. But Gideon, in a sense I accpet your prespective because I think that other issues need be discussed both from the past and aslo from the now. But ancient is only a conveinient conception of the mind my lord, our understanding of "time"is very primitave. Just as the number of deaths is no more significant than is the number of "years" that have passed. What I'm saying is that we should rid our selves of the numbers, those being implied to demonstrate a higher means of significance and get at the point, or what is to be taken from the matter. There is not a part of history that is less important than another. Even the smallest rock thrown into the river will change the flow forever.

Ras Zion I

Messenger: Ark I Sent: 2/2/2005 5:34:16 PM

Gideon, you said,
The point is that every time you talk about African history as something in any way distinct from any other part of human history you are reinforcing an arbitrary point of division that historically has been used as a means of division of our people.

The division is in people's minds, it is not in speaking about the slavery of Africans. Why can't people read about what happened to Africans without having division in their minds? Why can't they acknowledge the wickedness that was done and that still continues, and see it as the suffering of their brothers and sisters?

Do I have to speak about the problems of every nation everytime I want to speak about the sufferation that Africans went through? If I did that, then no message would be conveyed to people because it would be too much information. Like I said before, I have spoken about the sufferation of the First Nations (Indian) people of North America, and I have spoken about the sufferation of the many people who are in mental chains today. Everything in due time and season.

If your mind wasn't full of division Gideon, then you wouldn't have been offended by this post, but you would have acknowledged it and spoke about it. To compare this to another situation, it is like I am speaking to you about the police beating John, and instead of discussing what happened to John, you say, "Well, Brad and Jake were also beaten by the police, why aren't you talking about them, why do you only care what has happened to John?".

Are you offended because of my remark about the Jewish Holocaust? The reason I brought that up was because the reason babylon is not speaking about the African Holocaust isn't because they just don't want to bring up bad memories. They feel that it is worthwhile to bring up bad memories about what happened to the Jews. But there is some other reason why they don't want to bring up the African Holocaust. It is because they want it to be forgotten.

Why did the media make so much noise about Prince Harry wearing a Nazi uniform to a costume party. I have never heard them complain about people wearing a Christopher Columbus costume, or a Caesar costume, or a pilgram costume, or a George Washington costume, or a slavemaster costume (the clothes of the rich in the times of slavery).

Why is the wickedness of certain people rejected in this society, but not the wickedness of others?

RasTafarI people speak of the stories that are not told. When babylon propaganda isn't the majority of what people hear, then I will speak more about others. And the African Holocaust was much worse than the Jewish. Much more torture and death, and for a much longer time. And I don't want that story to be lost in the stories that babylon is already speaking about. So that is why I give it special attention. So people don't make it seem like less than what it is.

Ark I
Haile Selassie I

Messenger: Dreadnut Sent: 2/2/2005 6:15:04 PM

Yes I because the people today are still miseducated about what happened 400 years ago in slavery. As a matter of fact we are still deciphering information that is thousands of years old. The matter is barley discussed and brushed over. We are not beating a dead horse by discussing these issues. You know the saying "learn from other people's mistakes." Well in order to do so the person has to make the mistake which maens that anything that you learn from it derives from examining the past. The whole story of slavery has not yet been told, so we as Rastafari must uncover these things. Because here is the fact, these things were not just misplaced anf forgotten, they have been hidden behimd mythology, politics, and porpaganga. It's not innocent.

Even the worlds largest history book does not contain every tragedy of every kindred, nation , and tongue, so why should Ark I be given the responsability of supplementing every bit of history. He is only a human. And if these issues are so important to you gideon why don't you stop aruging and start discussing. If these matters are so important and urgent to you then why have you even wasted the time to argue it, why not just jump in full throttle and start discussing it and stop talking about talking about it.

Messenger: Ras Sistren Khamyl Sent: 2/2/2005 10:38:40 PM

agreed Dreadnut

I have often been accused of being racist because many want to believe that the past has no connection to what gwon now.

This is absolute nonsense; denial is more than just a river in Egypt!

When one senses the urge to tell someone to "let it go", my response is that I will let it go when the world does. And the descendents of the perpetrators still benefit from the deed today, so i guess, I NOT READY TO LET IT GO! I will continue to learn more and teach all those that I can how to learn more. MY PEOPLE ARE DESTROYED FOR "LACK OF KNOWLEDGE"


Messenger: gideon Sent: 2/3/2005 10:21:19 AM

Don't talk about John getting beat by the police, talk instead about police brutality. John's name does not have to come up, except as an example. And as an example you can use any example.
The fact that the example you use is almost always about Ham's suffering makes me think that you have a specific interest in the condition of Ham that goes beyond the problem being discussed.

I am not talking about talking about it. I am talking about it. And I am not arguing, I am discussing. When I come on this site it is to talk about one thing, revelation of truth. That is my one and only goal and the only thing I ever talk about. For this reason sometimes when I see a lie I will say that it is a lie and provide proof, and I will also speak against the practice of repeating the lie.

To contiue on the example of police brutality, police brutality is not about the victims, it is a problem whose root is deeper than the victims. The same can be said about wrongdoing on the whole. Wrongdoing is not about John, Africa, or anyone in particular, so there names really need not be mentioned. Also, the specific details about and example of wrongdoing are not important. The point is wrongdoing in general, not any specific example, or even all the examples in the world.
We need to bring our reasoning out of the physical realm of what happened and what happens, and we need to raise our meditation and our reasoning to the higher realm of why things happen. Do not get caught up in the physical manifestation of rootlessness. We need to focus on the general problem and not any specific case.
Specific cases will never be able to address the root, because they are about the situation and not about the cause.
We need to focus on truth, and the root of love. And I don't mean truth about what happened - those are just manifestations of the problem. We need to rise above talking about manifestations and start talking about the root.
What Dreadnut said is very true, that it is not about numbers or size of the atrocities. It is about a message deeper than individual offences. That is my point. And if you check that is exactly what I've been saying......
Get out of the physical realm. The root is not physical and the problem is at the level of the root. Don't be like a western doctor trying to treat the symptoms and dealing only with symptoms. You'll never find a cure that way, because you're not looking at the sickness, you're looking at the manifestations.

Messenger: Ras Sistren Khamyl Sent: 2/3/2005 11:40:58 AM


Messenger: NineMile2004 Sent: 2/3/2005 3:13:50 PM

A person killed is a person killed. I dont see so much a division there. I agree we need to be able to make a point about something specific without having to include everything similar. As long as we all overstand that it is all wickedness. Jewish or African Holocaust or killing of indians, kurds etc etc.

Until the philospohy which holds on race superior and another inferior........WAR

I believe InI know better than to be ignorant about the fact that not just africans or jews were murdered. I for myself will not accept any responsibility for the past of my country with regard to the murdering of innocent jews etc. I will however be responsible to not make the same mistakes. i did learn more about the jewish issue since I was born in Germany, than what I have learned about the African issues (which we have been taught about as well...), which may be rooted in the reason that as a german the jewish problems was right within the country.

I also do see that many Americans do not like to speak about the African holocaust but like to point out what germans have done. To me this is ridiculous, english, americans, and so forth have all done badness and I cannot say that one is worse than the other.

I do still see more racism in the US than in Germany but that is my personal experience, it may not actually be so or would be hard to measure.

ONE WORLD is enough not three

Lets find Zion within all of us and live in JAH Kingdom.

JAH RastafarI


Messenger: Dreadnut Sent: 2/3/2005 4:20:56 PM

By understanding our past we come to see were we are at now. With out this understanding, we shall we go, how will we know where to start? If I point to a place on the map and so get here. Well how? you have to know where you start inorder to prepare the walk. If slavery had been fully opened and discussed then, and all we had to say was"burn the white devils" then yes it would be time wasted.

Yes I gideon, these things is too physical, yes I, seen, we sight that. It's kinda like when the man dem say

Find a more construtive way of dealing with anger.

How about, disassociate your self from anger completely? Them no whan fi teach this type of ting.

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