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Messenger: Ark I Sent: 1/18/2005 11:21:03 PM

Gideon, I have tried to reason about the things that you say, but it seems that you for the most part are just repeating them again. You don't explain why the flaws I point out are not actually flaws, you just repeat what you said before in the same or different words.

You said,
When someone does something "wrong", we should not say the person is not following Jah. We should say that they are not following Jah in the best possible way according to our knowledge. But the fact is that they are following him in the best way that THEY know about, so they are not to blame for the choice that they made.

If a man is leading a group of people and one person is heading off in another direction, then I wouldn't say that he is not following the man in the best possible way according to his knowledge. He is simply not following the man. The reason he is not following the man may be because of his lack of knowledge, but either way, he is still not following the man. Because if he was following the man, then he would be moving in the same direction as the man.

When a parent teaches their children to follow their directions, they usually have children that follow their directions. But the parent who just lets the child "not follow the directions in the best possible way according to the child's knowledge" will always have a child that doesn't follow their directions. You can change it up in your mind all you like, but there still exists children who listen to their parents and children who don't listen to their parents and all the ranges in between. Just as their are people who listen to Jah and people who don't listen to Jah and all the ranges in between.

Earlier you said,
3. There is no forgiveness in the law. You are either one hundred percent perfect or you are out. If you believe that you have sinned, then you cannot look to the law to declare you pure, ever. Your past cannot be forgotten in the legal tradition, because it is a part of who you are.

When you are speaking about the way of the law and legal tradition, I assume that you are speaking the law Jah showed the Israelites. I have already shown you that there is forgiveness in the law, according to the scriptures where the law comes from. Just because you have sinned in the past doesn't mean that you are always condemned. Jah has always forgiven, that has never changed. You are speaking falsely about the Jah when you say that their is not forgiveness with the law and I have already pointed that out the other times you brought up this same reasoning, but you just go back and repeat it again. But you haven't once showed me why you think I am incorrect about the scripture that shows that Jah has always forgiven us, and the sins of the past doesn't condemn us in the future if we turn to Jah.

So what is the use. It doesn't really seem like you are interested in reasoning, it seems that you are only interested in trying to display the logic that is compiled from your theories. You are just confusing yourself by playing with the logic of your theories in different ways.

Your mind is too much into theories, you should take a closer look at reality. Many ideas can sound plausible in your mind, but have no place in reality.

I have said everything I want to say about this subject of doing Jah will or not doing Jah will. If you are not convinced by what I have already said, then I can't convince you of it. Based on what I have already heard about your theory, I myself know and accept that I will never be convinced of this theory of yours, and I don't consider it as a useful frame of mind for I trod towards Jah.

If we continue, you will just repeat the same theories again, and I will just repeat the same reasons why I think that your theories are not based in reality. I really don't have the desire to ponder too many theories. Reality is much more useful for I.

Ark I
Haile Selassie I

Messenger: gideon Sent: 1/19/2005 9:04:44 AM

I understand that. I was only repeating because sometimes when you repeat something people understand the second or third time.
I don't want us to give up on this right now, because we can make progress if we just work together.
I do think that both sides of the topic have been described adequately. One side is that men can follow truth or lies and that's how the world goes. My side is that there is no lie, only truth.

I want you to understand that this is not a theory. It is actually my experience of life. It is true that I have been explaining myself in a way that sounds theoretical when you read it, but that is just the method I have been using to express my experience. Any real thing can be described in a theoretical way.

Nevertheless, I support your decisions. If you do not respond to my posts then you have chosen to end the dialogue, at least for a time. It is the I irits.

Messenger: Ark I Sent: 1/19/2005 11:09:35 PM

I would be interested in hearing about your experiences that have lead you to this thinking.

Ark I
Haile Selassie I

Messenger: gideon Sent: 1/22/2005 11:29:42 AM

Here is an experiment you can try for yourself.
Look for someone who is caught up in evil or who is doing evil, or however you put it. And reason with that person about what they are doing and why they are doing it.
For this to work you have to approach the person and always direct the flow of the conversation so that the topic is always that person and why they are doing what they are doing, and the justice of it.
Do not accuse them, just say that you want to understand what they are thinking, and why they are doing what they are doing.

Now, according to your beliefs about evil and good, the evil person should never be able to find a good and logical explanation about what they are doing. The truth should always incriminate them and condemn them because they are evil, as you say.
But according to my beliefs they have a good reason and a good explanation why they are doing what they are doing. They are doing the best thing they know and their only guide is love. So that means that the truth will never condemn them, because heartically they are not guilty.

I have done this process in a thousand different ways with different people from all over the world and the result is always the same. They always have a justification for what they are doing. Their perceptions of reality are not always accurate, but that does not condemn them because it isn't their fault. So maybe their reasoning is stupid, but you will never find that it is evil.

But the experiment will only work if you believe, so don't try it. The fact is that you believe that people are led by good and evil, so you will always look for and think you have found proof that they are evil. I on the other hand, am coming from the perspective that they are good, so that is what I will find.
There is really nothing for us to say to eachother on this topic that can change the other person's perspective. It is not something that you can see on the outside - in creation - until you take it by faith in your heart.
The best thing I can do is say to you this: I used to think the way that you do, but I don't think that way anymore. By faith I told God that he is the creator and it's all good, and then he showed me that I was right. Not that he has shown me it perfectly yet, but he has showed me a lot - the light at the end of the tunnel.

Messenger: NineMile2004 Sent: 1/22/2005 9:56:14 PM

"Anywhere devilism is, is Babylon. Babylon fill the air with bad vibes. The Devil ain't got no power over me. The Devil come and me shake hands with the Devil! Devil has his part to play, Devil's a good friend too, because when you don't know him, that's the time he can mash you down. The Devil's a dangerous guy. Is-a Jah going to protect me. He said fear not, have no fear."

Bob Marley

Thought this was a good quote.


On another note, unfortunately not everyone knows right from wrong for any situation. Yes they might have good intentions but the righteous know better that those are falsely rooted intentions. I like to make mention again that making mistakes is not the problem, we all do and it is okay, but falsely rooted intentions don't make the act righteous, no apologies! The people that truly study JAH word and scripture and actively deal with it will see right from wrong and follow it by "focusing" on those righteous acts.

Once again as Luciano sang: "We were never expected to be righteous but in JAH we must put our trust." To put your trust into JAH you must know who JAH is and what JAH stands for and that is what you among other things learn from the scriptures. Seen?

Africa: I dont see that much unity there, I see tribal fighting and racial wars, still much ignorance and not enough faith in the truth.

Much Love,


Messenger: Ark I Sent: 1/22/2005 11:49:11 PM

Gideon, what did these people you speak about do, and what are some of the "good explanations" people give you?

Ark I
Haile Selassie I

Messenger: gideon Sent: 1/23/2005 10:07:30 AM

A friend of mine that I didn't want to talk to at the time called me on the phone and I screened the call. My mind rebelled and accused me of wrongdoing. This is because of my training - I have been programmed to think that it is wrong to do what I did, probably you can figure out the programming.......
Anyway, I had a conversation in my own mind to deal with the accusation of wrongdoing. I will write the discussion like a dialogue - A is the accuser and I is the responses that proved my innocence:
A: You are deceiving your friend, treating him unfairly and shamefully, this is proof that you are a fake.
I: I am real, so your logic must be wrong - where is the deception you are talking about.
A: You pretend to be a friend but then fail to play the role of a true friend, so it proves your friendship is a pretence. Friendship is a characteristic of immanuel, and you have shown that you lack this characteristic therefore you must be a sinner.
I: Good logic, but you are assuming that the only way to be a friend is to answer the phone - I think I was a friend not answering it.
A: That doesn't make sense, a friend answers.
I: I am a friend to him and me at the same time, not putting one before the other. Due to the situation I chose to remain in my meditation and not answer the phone. It was love.

This conversation could have been between two different people, one accusing the other and then the other person defending his actions. I made it between me and myself to show that this is a process that goes on in our own minds, too. The accusation is already programmed into our thinking so we all deal with it.
Every day all day in your mind you do the same. When you feel doubtful about what you did then you reason it out and you feel better that's what you just did.

This is my experience all day and every day with my own inner dialogue and also with others. I can also overcome accusations against others just by reasoning it out in my own mind without always having to reason with that person. That is because when I accuse someone the problem is in my mind and not with the person.

Basically, our unity as a people, from the heartical root, depends on trust. Accusations are what divide us, as soon as we overcome an accusation we are closer.

Messenger: gideon Sent: 1/23/2005 10:11:32 AM

I don't talk about Africa the continent. When I say Africa I mean the whole of creation - "out of Africa came the garden of Eden, Steel Pulse".
Africa is basically another word for creation, but the word Africa places emphasis on the importance of people, who are Africans. It is about culture, law and true identity.
African unity is based on faith in Jah Immanuel, which means God in man and God in creation. It is a natural faith. It is the power that keeps the world going and every friendship and all that we do.
African unity is INI. It is not a dream or a myth, it is a reality.

Messenger: gideon Sent: 1/23/2005 10:25:01 AM

Why did you leave your child in the car for four hours?
I lost track of time.
Why didn't you pay attention?
I was taken up with other things.
What is more important than your child?
Business, getting money to survive, for all of us?
So you left him there because you love him and you?

Why are you a cop?
To protect and serve?
Cops lock up innocent people.
Not on purpose.
But the system is flawed, and you know that you can mess up innocent people so why take the chance?
Because someone has to do something to stop crime.
So this is just the best you can think to do, but you admit that its not perfect.

Why are you breaking into that house?
I need to eat, money to live.
But that person never did anything to you.
I know, it sucks, but they can afford it. I prefer to eat and let them give up on a new entertainment center than to starve and let them listen to loud music.
Sounds reasonable.

Messenger: NineMile2004 Sent: 1/23/2005 1:11:32 PM

Child in car:

Knowing what might happen when leaving a child in a car and still not listening to the signs of what could happen is ignorance. If you leave your child in the car you have no excuse. It is pure stupidity. To me here comes in Discipline of your mind in the face of choices to make the right choice. Take the kid inside even if it is business, otherwise you should have made arrangements to have someone watch the child and you would not have had to be in the situation. Or take the kid inside the other party should understand and see the love you have for your child not leaving it outside.
This seems to be selfish love thinking of money first before your child (even if money is partly for childs wellbeing. Prioritize


Just because something is not perfect does not mean it shouldnt be necessarily used. We are not perfect so how could our systems be. That does not excuse people doign wrong from being excused from responsibility. Mistakes happen. We cannot live in anarchy. we have to protect our fellow people from the ignorant etc.

Thou shall not steal: Pretty easy to understand. If you need to eat go to a soup kitchen or somewhere, where you can be helped or ask for help but dont just take it. Ignorance again in this case, no care for god's law. Or no knowledge of god's law. Read the Bible if you must!



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Haile Selassie I