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Messenger: NineMile2004 Sent: 1/7/2005 9:43:15 PM

Teff, I agree with that


Messenger: gideon Sent: 1/8/2005 8:49:41 PM

I am very happy Me and my Father finally decided to write that last post that I wrote. It took Us a while to come to the place where I understood it was right. Of course he had known all along that this would happen this way but it was up to me by my own choice to express His love in creation, as I do. You see, me and my father are one. What I do is what he is doing through me, that's just the way it goes. He gives me life, through my heart, which guides me. So me and Jah had to reason together about if I should write the post that I posted earlier. And although at first it seemed strange to me, the idea of it made sense in the end after me and Jah reasoned together about it. You see, it had to come from my heart, because I was the one doing it. But Jah had to inspire me to know that it was right.

I am just talking about the natural thought process of everyone, but most people are unaware that what they are doing is what I just described. Another person would simply say that he had a hard time deciding if he should write the post or not, but now he's glad it worked out this way. What it really is is your heart that guides you in everything that you do, and that is your expression of Jah love in creation. It's a natural thing, it's who and what we are.
I am not denying free will in any way, I am just saying that what we do is what Jah is doing, because he is doing it in us and through us.
About murder and drugs, you have to realize that that person needed to die, and those drugs were good for that person to take. You see, a person can't die without deserving to.
It sounds like a predestination reasoning but it is not. It is just that my faith tells me that my mind is not seeing clearly when I imagine judgments about right and wrong when I look a things going on.

But if you see wicked acts then what do you say is the power source that empowers these actions? I mean, isn't the heart the source of power for a man? So then how do you think that people get power to live and do things, and the inspiration? Doesn't love lead everyone? Do you believe there is an evil spirit in people and they turn evil and follow the evil? And maybe you believe in an evil spirit in creation that does things like causing that Tsunami the other day. Maybe you think that Satan is fighting God and all the bad things that people do are when satan wins? That's crazy thinking.

Messenger: NineMile2004 Sent: 1/8/2005 10:44:14 PM

I can't agree with that reasoning. I can see you have strong faith in your beliefs but to me free will is not what you reason it to be. What you are describing here I don't see as free will. If we are destined to act out JAH will then we have no free will. The bad that is happening happens because of choices, either the choice of the afflicting other person, or the choices of a person that affects themselves. I do not have an explanation for natural disasters yet, other than the scientific explanations. Possibly even matter other than flesh has a free will and that is why the earth is shaking or the winds are blowing. Some disasters and I belief all diseases can be explained through choices. Global warming seems to be clearly stemming from our choices throughout the last centuries and diseases stem from what we put out into nature and for what we put into our bodies that affect us over time. We mess with nature by bad choices and it affects us all. Free will allows you to make that bad choice at that exact moment but not all choices have an to the open eye instantly recognizable outcome. Free is free but Karma still exists:you reap what you sow.

You only act out JAH when you listen to your heart and follow the right choice that we all deep within know and are able to identify. If you let your wants and take over and start loving material over spirit or misidentify love as something you only receive to satisfy your unnecessary wants instead of something of giving nature that you distract yourself from hearing that voice inside telling you right from wrong and inspiring you.

Free is free is free. Listen inside, and focus on the good and you will not do wrong. Understand what love really is, never selfish, never only about receiving but about giving.

Turning your reasoning around it can just as well be reasoned the oher way around. If JAH acts directly through us without us being able to influence the act then we are not acting out of free will, then we are not acting at all but JAH is acting. Remember just because JAH only does good, does not mean he is not able to do bad. He just has no reason to and has no distractions and has complete overstanding so he is always at full control.

You may ask: why then does he create us not in his perfect full overstanding likening? Because: He is free and acts from his free will and if he wants to create us in his likening he has to let us start out to be free, otherwise we have not the same foundation (free).



Messenger: Ark I Sent: 1/9/2005 12:04:19 AM

Gideon, your view may seem completely clear to you, but it is not the way I see it. The view that people only do good, and even the evil (what I and I call evil) things that they do are just their expression of love and is the best they know is not a view that makes any sense to I. The things you have said in support of this has not convinced I at all.

One example, a guy who picks up a child off the street and tortures, sexually abuses, or kills the child, they are doing evil and their intentions are evil, they know that it is not good, but they somehow enjoy inflicting such wickedness on a child. I will never accept that this guy is expressing his love, or doing a good thing, or a lessor good thing, or doing what Jah commands. You speak of certain views being crazy, to I this view is a view that is crazy. And it is an easy excuse for people who don't desire to do good or only desire to do partially good, or desire to do lessor good. They may be able to excuse the wickedness in their own mind, but Jah has set the standard and wickedness is not the standard that Jah gave for I and I to Live.

Ark I
Haile Selassie I

Messenger: gideon Sent: 1/9/2005 8:52:58 AM

Well, at least I am grateful for your responses and that you took the time to read what I posted and think about it.
It doesn't look like there's anything more that I can say. Maybe I need to tell people in person... actually I think that's what it is. This internet is a weak form of communication.
But be that as it may, I'll continue reasoning if those on this site show interest. But I think that it won't work out that way. It seems that I have said all that I can say and without the results I was looking for.
Everything is everything though, so we'll see how things work out.
I do not think that anyone understands where I am coming from. I need to figure out how to communicate it.......

Messenger: NineMile2004 Sent: 1/9/2005 9:23:59 AM


I think InI overstand what the I is saying but it does not make sense to the Is. I overstand what you are saying but I say it is not so. You were talking about focusing before and now you are saying everything is done by JAH through us. Then why the need to focus if the Is are not individual free thinking beings? I see contradictions in your reasoning.

I am not sure about your life experiences and I cannot say anything about it but I myself do not believe in excusing choices that way by saying that everything is meant to happen that way. That kind of reasoning goes against any kind of free will. If JAH would work through us in that way than he would not need to have us do bad then we would all only do good. And I overstand that you are saying we only perceive murder rape etc etc as bad falsely and that it isnt bad but we only imagine it as bad. I say I dont see it that way. I say the reason for those things stem from our struggle to handle such a great thing as free will in the way JAH wanted us to.



Messenger: NineMile2004 Sent: 1/9/2005 7:55:44 PM

We shall not judge each other's faith. There however is an effect to every cause. If every choice would bring an instant effect, no better if everyone could identify the instant effect of their choice (which can be identified through the knowledge of JAH) than we may see clearer what choices are bad.

Unfortunately people do believe that they can do whatever they want because they dont know the truth or better they dont keep the truth actively within for guidance.


Messenger: gideon Sent: 1/10/2005 10:46:05 AM

I agree that it is my limitations and not the limitations of the internet that are causing the failure of my objectives. I do have the faith, but I haven't grown enough so my faith is not strong enough in that sense. You're right. But that doesn't say anything about the truth of the message I am trying to communicate.
One reason I feel you don't understand what I am saying is that everyone keeps telling me about free will. But I have never spoken against free will at any time in any way. I have absolutely no doubt about free will and I do know without doubt that we are free, intelligent beings who live our own lives.
All I am saying is that we are one with Jah. Why this sounds to many of you like I am denying the truth of free will is a mystery to me. I have never suggested that.
I am not denying our power to make choices, and I am not denying our responsibility to choose good ways to use our power. All I am denying is guilt.
So it seems like a contradiction because I say that we make choices and have the responsibility to choose well, but then we are unable to make bad choices. So it seems like there is no responsibility if we will make the good choice no matter what.
Please let me explain the confusion:
In the false tradition of "the world" people use the concept of responsibility to enslave eachother. It is used to make people feel doubt about their own actions and their own worth, and it is used to control people. It is all about downpression and slavery. This is not the true meaning of the word responsibility.
Real responsibility is simply talking about the fact that we are the ones who do God's will in earth. We are God's hands in creation, and even His word, too. We are not the only form of his power, but we are one form of his power.
It is just that we have been taught to think of free will and responsibility in the context of fear about making the wrong decision. After all, we grew up in Babylon and we learned to think that way in the slavery tradition. So when I say that we always make good choices it sounds to you like I am denying free will, because in our minds we have been trained to associate free will with good and evil. This is all a single doctrine that exists in society today that combines the concept of free will with the concept of making good and bad choices.
So now when I say that we only make good choices and we are not guilty it sounds like I am denying free will. But I never suggested that. We are free to do God's will. That's doesn't mean we are not free unless you assume to to be free means to be able to do evil.
Actually in your mind you have linked free will with the ability to do good or evil. So you will always doubt yourself if you think that way. You will always continue to look at your actions trying to judge them and see if they seem good or bad. And you will never be able to be spiritually free according to the tradition of Afreeca.
All this is the same reasoning about grace and works. What is going on is that you are trying to judge the value of your life according to the goodness or badness of your works. But faith in christ is about assuming on faith that what you are doing is good, so you don't look over your shoulder trying to figure out if your actions are good or evil.
Again I have to remind you that there are only two traditions, the way of faith in works and the way of faith in christ. That's basically what the bible is about and what Jesus and Selassie taught.
When you follow the works tradition, which is babylon, you will doubt yourself and you cannot be free. But when you follow the way of christ you are already declared good. You don't have to look at your works to try to judge yourself good or bad, because you declare your goodness by faith.
So, that's the message. I appreciate very much that you're taking the time to reason with me, even though in your minds I'm not making any sense.
Please let us continue to reason about it. I will show that there are no contradictions. It is just a matter of time before we get the words right for communication to work.

Messenger: the rock Sent: 1/10/2005 11:24:50 AM

John 10

1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

12But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

13The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

19There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.

20And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

21Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

22And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

23And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30I and my Father are one.

31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

39Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

40And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode.

41And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true.

42And many believed on him there.

If i do a good work let it be seen,, no one can measure what can not be seen(faith) Faith with out works is death,,,even being alone..


Messenger: NineMile2004 Sent: 1/10/2005 7:09:43 PM

I am not clear yet if Grace will save us as long as we accept God, even if with that knowledge we still dont show works (do bad instead of good). But even if this is true and we get saved through Grace even without the works, I see it of utmost importance to do good works. Saved by Grace says it is ok to make mistakes and not fear mistakes but it also is more of an encouragement to seek good works. For if we know we can make mistakes we wont be afraid of trying. This way people wont be kept from trying due to their fear of making mistakes. It is a loving way of guidance. Who wants to accept good and have faith if they are so afraid of mistakes that could let them burn in hell (i.e.). So they wont even try. But if they know mistakes are ok then it shows love and understanding and will help them on their journey.

Jah RastafarI


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