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Messenger: NineMile2004 Sent: 1/6/2005 9:35:30 AM

I agree Teff.

Gideon, please explain then why people sin if they are not been given a free will and when we see it is going on in this world. Maybe this is again a problem of misunderstanding of the definition free. Is not grace the issue? I dont think you are saying that the sinner is doomed to sin once he sinned. Isnt there an opportunity to change for the better? otherwise we would all be doomed for we all have sinned in one way or another in our lifes. Exceptions are there but are "unfortunately" not overweighing at this time.

Gideon please further explain your reasoning. Maybe you are defining free by saying free is = believing in christ and acting in a christ like way. I say free as it is defined by society is how I use the word. Free will, sinning is the negative part of choices we make when not thinking and acting christ-like.

Explain why so much trouble in the world. I know consequences, and I think I know grace so explain the troubles.

As Luciano sang: we were never expected to be righteous but in god we must place our trust.



Messenger: gideon Sent: 1/6/2005 12:25:27 PM

The world thinks you an be free to dumb. But HIM teaches us what free really is. It is free up, the natural way. This is the basic rastafarian teaching, so you should know what it is.......

Anyway, about sin and all the trouble in the world. I do not believe in sin. All the problems in the world are due to ignorance. I do not believe in malice, hatred, or any negative or evil force in creation or in anyone's mind. It is all illusion.
I know this is hard to accept, so let us examine what illusion is. Illusion is something that looks real to the person under the illusion, but which is actually not real. So this is how the illusion of sin works: I look at someone taking something, and I know that if this person knew what I know that they would know that it is not good for them to take that thing. So I ask myself why that person is doing this wrong thing......... big mistake to ask myself that question.
The person is not doing a wrong thing, they are doing the good that they know. It is just that if they knew what I know then they would know it is not good. But they don't know what I know, so that's all academic.
So Bush goes to war for selfish reasons. But in his mind he is a patriot serving his nation, the leader of the free world doing something hard but necessary. You and me know that America has no right to claim ownership of the land called America, and that they have no right to make laws over people, or send soldiers to kill innocents. But Bush doesn't know that. He is doing the good HE knows. It would be wrong if he knew what we know, but he doesn't so it isn't wrong.

Messenger: gideon Sent: 1/6/2005 12:42:36 PM

Jah decided to create mankind. He takes some earth and changes it and forms it into the desired state. Then he breathes his spirit into that flesh and this is how he makes man.
So what is a man? A man is the spirit of Jah, living in a temple of flesh. Now each temple is different and so each man is different, but only superficially. On the level of the essence of man, we are all the same, because we are all the spirit of Jah.
So let us consider this accusation that we sin, or do wrong. To do wrong means to go against the guidance of Jah, against his spirit. So the accusation of sin is basically a claim that our accuser makes, telling us that we have gone against the spirit of Jah.
But then when I look at who and what I am, I see that I AM the spirit of Jah. So how can the spirit of Jah (me) go against the spirit of Jah (Father)? That doesn't make sense. So I know the accusation is false.
So what is the basis of my knowledge that the accusations of sin are false? The basis is that I recognize that I am identified as christ, meaning Jah in man. This is what I described in the first two paragraphs.
But what is the basis of the accusations? Obviously Jah spirit cannot go against Jah spirit, so what is the accuser trying to say? What he is claiming is that I do wrong. And the only way I can do wrong is if I am not Jah spirit. So the whole idea of the accusation is that the accuser is claiming that I am not christ.
So, you see, by accepting the truth of christ I overcome the accusation of the accuser. His whole argument is based on the assumption that I am not christ.
So there are two kinds of people, those who are conscious of christ and those who are not. Those who are conscious of christ know by this faith in christ that they are not guilty of any wrongdoing, because they know that they are christ. But those who do not believe in christ imagine that they are guilty of sin, and they accept the nonsense that the accuser tells them. This accuser is their enemy, because he is trying to steal their faith in themselves and Jah, which is the basic element that supports their life. His whole purpose is to steal, kill and destroy. Everything that he says is an attempt to slander us by saying that we are not who we really are, and who we really are is christ.
So to conquer this adversary who accuses and slanders us, we need knowledge. We need to recognize the truth of christ and accept the faith of christ. Then we win.

Messenger: the rock Sent: 1/6/2005 1:22:47 PM

gideon...Bush is not doing anything that his for father's (the people that he follows) have not been doing for years.Befor it was this Bush it was his father, Bush,before that it was some other head of state.People vote them in, or they just still the race(for head of state).This is a plan.And it is not going to be put to rest by the people acting as if it is a illusion.For year these people have been going around the world in a business like manner, to take over the world,but they do not call it that,they call globelization.Its like a game,and for people to win in that game,someone has to lose.I do not know anything about free-dumb,that dose not make any since.Bush, and for that matter most people have a chance to educate,themself's on what they want to.Some people got to tranning school's some go to college, people learn from the streets,but all people have a chance to learn,even them that leave on the streets, or the homeless.Point being that people may not know what we know,but they do have a chance to learn JAH way from the way of evil or what people call the devil way.And hot is hot and cold is cold ,even in degress.Good or evil, one or the other,even changing back and forth, its still a choice.I do not want to push my view on you,but i do want to give you a nother piont of view..


Messenger: the rock Sent: 1/6/2005 1:37:38 PM

If you know that Christ was here to teach man about GOD,and the way that god wants people to be,then man must have been going astray.Even if the sprite of aman is from god.The world from the begining was made my JAH,and from the begining man and woman have went there own way.(adam and eve)

Messenger: NineMile2004 Sent: 1/6/2005 4:24:51 PM

Seen Rock Seen. Jesus came for that reason. Bad is bad not an illusion in that sense but I agree if people truly overstand the truth and not just go to sunday church but actively spread goodness we would not have the problem. God has free will and I think Ark I explained that part with his view by stating god always chooses good even if he has the ability to do differently. We do not have the clear full overstanding as god has that is why it is many times harder for us to stay on path. As Rastafari said: Discipline your mind and glory in the bible, look to the bible



Messenger: NineMile2004 Sent: 1/6/2005 11:08:09 PM

Teff brethren,

At this point I must say I can only agree with you. Accepting Christ will cause forgiveness. At the same time I do believe we must strive for a conscious life in that we choose the good over evil in all our choices. This I personally find the biggest challenge. When trying to explain to myself that we cant become god I would argue that we can be one but can not be the whole but just each of us become one with god. Like Ark I illustrated by mentioning the rain drop and the ocean.

Thanks to Teff for the wonderful post, that I at this point can only agree with.

Utmost respect to everyone that is reasoning on this site,


Messenger: gideon Sent: 1/7/2005 4:48:27 PM

Well, I don't expect everyone to agree with me right away. Everyone will see what they need to see at the right time for them, so no stress.
But we should reason about this. The situation right now is that I have been trying to express a message, but so far what I have said sounds strange to you all.
Let's reason about it. I know that we have all been taught to think of things that happen in terms of good and evil, and god and satan, and right and wrong. And what I am saying is different. I see things just in terms of good and less good, god and less god, love and less love. If you think that my perspective is confused or inaccurate then let us give reasons and discuss.
You all seem to be following the perspective of seeing love and hate, when I just see love and less love. So it shouldn't be hard for us to reason it out and shine our light so that the truth can be known. If I'm right or wrong let us all shine our lights so that whatever is wrong gets shown for the lie it is.
But if you're not interested enough in my statements at this time to discuss it then that's okay too.
Right now, can anyone respond to the reasons I have given in my posts so far? Say why you see that they are right or wrong, and then we can look at your reasons and my reasons and let the chips fall where they may.
I have stated clearly what my views are and I have given straightforward reasons why I think you should accept the same view. So I think that I deserve reasons in return. I know that you disagree, but can you say why?
Let us reason from the root. If you want to quote some statement someone made or some book and use that source as an authority then I am not part of that. But if you can reason with just common sense and logic then I think this is beneficial.
Is anyone interested, or does anyone have a better suggestion about how we can go about clearing up misconceptions and misunderstandings so we can get to the truth?
I am open-minded and ready to participate in any effort to systematically discuss this topic, since I want to spread the message. But I'm not going to be able to respond to four people coming from different directions all making comments at the same time. What are we going to do?
Ark, maybe there is some alteration or addition to the forum framework that you can make to facilitate this kind of discussion where a person is bringing a new message or idea and he wants to respond to many people makeing comments on what he has said.

Messenger: the rock Sent: 1/7/2005 5:21:06 PM


I for myself overstand what you are sayin. For myself its just words getting in the way. I feel that your saying how can anything that
God made be evil. There is no evil in your view only degrees of good. In the predestined frame of mind to me, your sayin that God has a plan and its already in acted, so everything that happens basically happens for a reason. I don't don't argue with the phrase, everything happens for a reason, but its obvious that this world has people who are generally trying to make a positive move and others that are making negative moves. Any concept that a person has is documented and if for instance, your talking about science, its documented, if your talking about fixen a car there is a document on it so why do you have a problem with people giving you a reference to thier views. With an article, with a song, a book, bible passage, a person has a reference to what is spoken about. Now individual perceptions in almost all of the things that have been said have been written and are documented. Some people are able to express themselves and others are not. However a person trys to get a message across to me is attributed to thier own skills. I overstand that were seeking to find unity but still the same there will always be individualities. Each person will bring something new to the table, hopefully. Back to the reasoning without an article I can give you an example in my own life of how there is an absolute abbility to distinguish good from evil. Even being that good and evil exist in a single person. I have a friend that I have known since I was 16yrs old (15years) when we first met his people were from the carribean .. they had a lot of Rasta influence around them. So we talk about Rasta alot even to this day this guy is like a super athlete he could do anything Ive watched him get into altercations and 3-4 guys couldnt handle him, he started to do crystal meth when he was 16, hes 30 now still got all that Rasta knowledge but no one hears it. For him it is the party, the alcohol, sex, and drugs. In his character there are trats that are evidently positive but the majority of the things that he indulges in would overwhelminly bring him to the negative. Good and evil in one person, his choice and what to do either or. To this day he probrably cant go 2 months without smoking some meth but I love this kid, he's like my best friend predestined or not, to me there is still a good and evil.

Messenger: NineMile2004 Sent: 1/7/2005 6:14:40 PM

Gideon my brethren,

Here is my thought:

God only creates good. Free Will is good, HIM created free will.

God only makes good choices from his free will, he has that knowledge so he will never make a bad choice, when he is faced with choice. This is out of his full overstanding as the whole.

InI have free will given by god, the only reason why we struggle with only making the good choice because we dont have the full overstanding and control over our minds at every single time. God has that control to only do the right (good). We are not the whole but part of it.

What you are saying seems to mean that we too, only make good choices because god creates only good so how can anything be bad. Calling something LESS good, is fine, but it just means the same as bad. Murer is never less good, there is nothing good about it and I dont even want to call it good anything (i.e. less good).

I see we agree but for that I believe you might not fully overstand the meaning of free will. No offense, please just reason.


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