JAH - The Historical Jesus and Mythical Christ

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The Historical Jesus and Mythical Christ

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Messenger: SunofMan

Sent: 12/8/2008 11:16:40 AM

Ark I, the I said:

"there is no reference or source that leads back to the hieroglyphs that would match those claims."

-Ones are just translating the hieroglyphs, reading the stories and coming to the conclusion that, wow, these stories seem like fragments of the stories found in the Bible. The complete life of Heru(Horus)does not completely parallel Christ, I don't know who made that claim. One can find pieces of stories about other Kemetic gods that also formed the foundation of various Christian stories. The fact is that the stories of Kemet didn't even stay the same over time, they were evolving in written and oral tradition. One can also discover themes from Kemetic writings that are echoed in the Old testament, it is a process of repackaging the old and making it more palatable for the new reader.

Moses was said to have written the first five books of the Old Testament. Why would it be hard to believe that a man who had been raised in Egypt trained in the Kemetic mysteries obviously learned in Kemetic lore might not retain many of those themes in his own writings that he would then give to a people who reviled the Egyptians. And, these same people (Israelites) who had spent much time in Kemet themselves would have also been hearing much of the same Kemetic lore, would it then be so unprobable for them to continue to use Kemetic myths in a repackaged form, to create thier own stories.

The thing that makes me like the Bible so much is that it is much more humanized and contains a great deal of emotion. The stories of Kemet do impart morality and righteousness, but not as the Bible does. The Bible relates to us as human beings, we aren't trying to look to animal headed gods and the external, but rather redirected to our internal selves. The Bible is by no means to be shunned and I would never try to lead Ones that way, my point is that things are always better overstood in thier proper historical context. Seeing things in this way can be very impowering, and brings new sight to the Bible (for I anyways). That is also not to say that there isn't great power in the Kemetic writings and traditions, people have followed them for so long because the Kemetians had great wisdom.

Ark I, the hieroglyphs the I is looking for are there, but you'd first have to believe that there's a connection. If you take the time to read a lot of the writing that you linked, the I might find things more compelling. That said, I would also encourage the I to stop dwelling on the Heru/Christ parallel thing, you'll see it, but the whole picture is much larger, it took books to show it, not just a few passages.

Selam

Messenger: Ark I

Sent: 12/8/2008 11:35:36 AM

There are stories of magical powers related to Haile Selassie I.

Kingdom Come

I don't know what the source of those stories are before being mentioned in that book, but they are being told.

SunofMan, one thing I wonder. There are many stories of RasTafarI people causing storms, tornadoes, earthquakes and other such things. Or stories of RasTafarI people prophesying the near or far future, or reading the Irits of others and communicating through the Irits. And many other mystical stories. Do you believe that these things are just stories and didn't really happen?

Ark I

Itinual Praises unto Jah RasTafarI Haile Selassie I

Messenger: Ark I

Sent: 12/8/2008 11:56:36 AM

SunofMan, the I said,
---------------------------------
Ones are just translating the hieroglyphs, reading the stories and coming to the conclusion that, wow, these stories seem like fragments of the stories found in the Bible.
---------------------------------

That is based on the assumption that they are translating the parallels from hieroglyphs and not just making it up themselves, or that they are making the assumption that the sources they referenced were actually translating it from hieroglyphs and not making it up themselves.

It all comes down to assumption unless the hieroglyphs are shown. And do you not find it curious that most of the parallels mentioned are supposedly based on hieroglyphs that were first translated by people making the claims of parallels. With the exception of a few of the claimed parallels (like the virgin birth claim), you will not find a previous translation that shows those parts of the story of Horus without at the same time making claims of parallels.

So if a person is trying to shake the foundation of the Christian Church and is writing a book to say the story was taken from other stories, does it not seem plausible that the people might make up parts and say they translated it because they know that many will just believe the claims without the proof from hieroglyphs. And based on how many people in these present times believe those claims without requiring proof from hieroglyphs, it looks like taking that chance to make things up would have been a pretty safe chance to take, especially a hundred or so years ago when people didn't have access to the amount of information we have access to today, and people were less likely in those times to travel to Egypt to confirm the translations.

You said,
---------------------------------
The complete life of Heru(Horus)does not completely parallel Christ, I don't know who made that claim.
---------------------------------

I don't think I ever said that people claim that the complete life of Horus completely parallels Christ. If I did say that, it wasn't what I was trying to say.

Ark I

Itinual Praises unto Jah RasTafarI Haile Selassie I Menen I

Messenger: SunofMan

Sent: 12/9/2008 7:10:58 AM

"There are stories of magical powers related to Haile Selassie I."

I knew this link was coming... and I'm not sure where to begin about it. This book is the only time I've ever seen anything like this, nobody seems to know where these stories came from......I never heard any of these before I had come to I own conclusion about His Majesty and I certainly would've been fine without them. These stories do nothing for me, and I would find it disturbing if Ones felt any need whatsoever to cling to these stories in any way to form any part of the basis of their own conceptions of His Majesty. True, stories are being told, in this one book anyways, however, I have never heard an elder, or any other Ras for that matter, impart these fantastical stories of His Majesty in order to I-vince anyONe of anything.

"SunofMan, one thing I wonder. There are many stories of RasTafarI people causing storms, tornadoes, earthquakes and other such things. Or stories of RasTafarI people prophesying the near or far future, or reading the Irits of others and communicating through the Irits. And many other mystical stories. Do you believe that these things are just stories and didn't really happen?"

As for Earth phenomena being caused by Rastafari people... a tornado? Ark I, I do believe we are all very much linked to nature, humans have the ability to know when things are coming, some are very in tune with themselves, their inner Irit. Humans have some very amazing powers that are completely natural, it is the agenda of the babylonic system in place today to diminish our Self worth, in order to keep Ones Irits down. I think many people don't give them Selves enough credit, and as a result never manage to develop the Ites of their own Irits, but there are great abilities within all. I personally believe in what I bear witness to and what I can apply my own logic to. I'm sure there are some very amazing true occurrences and some very fictitious stories.

"That is based on the assumption that they are translating the parallels from hieroglyphs and not just making it up themselves, or that they are making the assumption that the sources they referenced were actually translating it from hieroglyphs and not making it up themselves."

Ark I, please at least look at the link of Wallis Budge's "Egyptian Book of the Dead" that the I posted, they've pictured many of the papyrus burial scrolls that contain the basis for much of the translations. I've never seen a copy of the Book of the Dead that didn't have loads of photos or transcriptions of the hieroglyphic inscriptions, and I've never read a copy that was anything but a translation of the hieroglyphics, completely void of an agenda to show a personal opinion by the translator.

At this point in time, the same hieroglyphs have been translated by many many archeologists, all coming up with the same general meanings, I just don't see an agenda to fool the masses here. Please read the works before making up your mind.

"If I did say that, it wasn't what I was trying to say."

didn't mean to imply the I was...

What do One's think of the Massey essay???

Selam

Messenger: Jah Bird

Sent: 12/9/2008 8:08:53 AM

Blessed Love,I give thanks for the link of the books Ark I,

I personally find it difficult where to start, the essay of Messay is clear in his own way. I came accros also the work of dr. Ben Jochannan, amazing egyptologist. Him and many other have translated it the same way. The one of Massay is quite from the begining of Jehoshua till Jesus.
Even before Moses's ten commandments there was the 'negative confession'of Ani negative confessions
Before the Hebrews there was circumcision and it is shown clearly on the walls of egypt.

Those hebrews where there for 430 years, it would seem strange if they did not pick things up from the Ancient religion.
e.g the Blowing of the ramhorn. The Ram was sacred,
In the Ible it is stated that Moses got ALL his wisdom from Egypt.
And the first 5 books were his.
This is just an example of what was never told. Roman and greek came about yesterday. Ancient Africa is Ancient.
Christ is Christ no debate, from beginig till end.but for many years people were made to think that Iyeseu was european(white).Just for political purpose. Evne the pope took on the hat(crown) And year by year people come to realize the truth. Many did leave the church.

Some RastafarI say Iyesus was hung on a tree while some say crusified on a cross. There is still much confussion (i think) who he Historically was.
Some say Iyesus was born in a manger and some say in a cave in Ethiopia.
What i am trying to find out for I self is the 'whole'truth of the story.I do not claim i know all thing, i am trying to get rid of my ignorance.
The word of Chirst has always been true, the livity is true.
Did not Jah RastafarI sit on HIS THRONE. He most certainly did.

It has been said that even the appostels of Jesus had different views of what has happend, so in how much is the story around and about Jesus Accurate.
Would the people who translated and re-wrote the ible from the Ancient claime that He was an Ethiopian.They didn't, Just as many would not see and know Jah RastafarI for who HE is TODAY, not even the Ethopians. But His words are everlasting!!great God!!.

I would not be surprised if all the story of Jesus (who he was and what he did)was a modification of the ancient. Just because of his origin. To cover up the truth they would amalgamate the truth and the myth.
Remember the wicked will do anything to trick people.
Now adays many people think for certain that all the knowledge of the old was built by aliens!!! Imagine.

I am not good with writing and expressing, but i 'll post again soon after i collect i thoughts.
Blessed Give thanks for the reason.

Messenger: Ark I

Sent: 12/9/2008 3:46:08 PM

SunofMan,

When I was speaking of references to Egyptian hieroglyphs, I wasn't refering to the Book of the Dead, I know that that book is based on actual hieroglyphs. I was speaking about the numerous parallels claimed in other books between Horus and Jesus. I am speaking of most, but not all the parallels because I know that a few of them have a source in Egyptian Hieroglyphs, but as I said before, the parallels with proof in Hieroglyphs seem to be quite loosely linked to the story of Christ (Like the conception story).

SunofMan, this next statement isn't in reference to you, but to others who have come with the claims of parallel. Some have come and part of their criticism is that I and I are accepting the story of Christ without any proof that the story is true. But these same people are speaking of parallels claimed in books without any proof that they are true or any reference to hieroglyphs that support the claims. I would think that if people have such a concern about the proof of the story of Eashua Christ, that they would be equally concerned with the proof for the claims of parallel, but that is not the case.

Ark I

Itinual Praises unto Jah RasTafarI Haile Selassie I

Messenger: SunofMan

Sent: 12/10/2008 6:50:45 AM

Most of the examples cited in other books are basing their theory on the "Book of the Dead"/"Book of Coming Forth By Day"'s writings. Other correlations are based on the inscriptions on temple walls, and there are photographs of those too, in some books, with translations. I'm pretty sure there are Dr.Ben videos on the net where he is walking around temple complexes reading the walls, Kwesi has videos where he's doing the same thing, it's pretty interesting to watch, and they do make some good rational points. When I have time I'll try to search for some on the web and post links.

However, much of Massey and Acharya's work is not based solely on hieroglyphs, but writings from many other cultures as well. They make a strong case for an astro-theological basis of Christianity as well as the other big four. It is solar/lunar forms of worship that Kemetic religion is based on as well, and this has just evolved over time, and adapted to fit the people.

Selam

Messenger: Ras KebreAB

Sent: 12/10/2008 11:54:30 AM

Ises,
Lots of things happening here. Apologies, Ark I, im having one internet problem after the other so i havent been around as much as i should.
Still, seeing what things the i them are reasoning about,i am happy to say, i am missing nothing.
Ras Power, i stand with the i on this one.

One of the great follies is this false idea that "old" or "ancient" means good and right. As if satan just start decieving the world yesterday, which couldnt be further from the truth.

" The word "Virgin" does not have to be shackled to the definition of a woman who never had intercourse. Virgin may also imply a sense of purity."
I am surprised to hear this from you,SunofMan.
You can debate the english word "virgin" and what it means here all you want, but when InI Father says "dengel Mariam", you and i both know exactly what he is talking about

"Christians would hardly engage in giving the Goddess the praise she deserves had a sense of purity not been maintained in speaking of her."
Strange, and i thought Her words and Works were sufficient for all to give her her due Raspect.

"It simply came from watching the solar and lunar cycles that the story evolved in cultures all over the world, and it was later applied to Christ and Mariam to ensure thier veneration."

False, it was not "applied", it is just so. The lunar and solar cycles are Jah Works, likewise, so is Christ. Why are you so surprised that the heavenly is reflected on earth in flesh and blood.

"How was His Majesty supposed to unite Christians?"
"His Majesty holds the highest seat on earth, and why enrage the world?"
Well i say.......

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household"

"He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me"
I love i Father on the Throne more than i could ever love my fathers of ancient. What I Father says is is IS

"Moreover, His Majesty is no fool, and I can not believe that He was taking Christianity at such a superficial level"
wow, iyah, i have to say WOW
next thing ,who knows, i am going to hear Empress Menen was a fool, because i can certainly tell you what she believed in and stood for,but i know you know already.

Rastafari Guide you all

Messenger: Ark I

Sent: 12/10/2008 12:50:24 PM

When somebody is able to do more than just say there is proof for the claims, and can show I the parts of the Book of the Dead that correspond to the numerous claims of parallel, I will look into it further.

I don't have enough time to cross-reference the various books and search in the book of the dead for proof of their claims, I am too busy with other things.

But I would think out of all the people who believe the claims of parallel, there should be some that could point out the parts of the Book of the Dead that corresponds to the claims of parallel. The links to the Book of the Dead and other books that I posted here are PDFs, so if a person who claims they have read these books can't remember the page numbers, it should be easy for them to type in search terms to find the different claims of parallel and either find the references to the Book of the Dead cited within the books, or to type search terms in the Book of the Dead themselves to find the sources of the claims.

Further discussion about this without such proof doesn't make much sense to I. I don't have as much trust in the authors of the parallel claims books as others do, because the authors agendas are obvious to I, so I won't just take their word as truth.

Ark I

Itinual Praises unto Jah RasTafarI Haile Selassie I Menen I

Messenger: Ras Sistren Khamyl

Sent: 12/10/2008 1:28:07 PM

This entire reasoning made me dizzy.

-RSK

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