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Sex before marriage

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Time Zone: EST (New York, Toronto)
Messenger: Alexander Sent: 11/26/2007 8:31:53 AM

Greetings, Idren!

I'm having trouble finding anything in the Bible that really speaks about having sex before marriage, so I would like to know what my Idren on the board thinks of this.

I'm also having trouble finding anything in the Bible about what a marriage really is. What counts as a marriage?

I would really appreciate some answers.

Messenger: Ignorant/Wise Rasta Youth Sent: 12/14/2022 3:47:44 PM

Me too. I think if it's the empress that you know you're gonna marry and have pickney with, it's okay to have sex before the marriage day

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 1/20/2023 6:10:55 PM

Depends... biblically speaking it is a bit fuzzy. In general, sex was the method of consummating a marriage. However, there had to be an agreement. So you could be engaged and the engagement would be culturally considered as a marriage but the difference was cohabitation.

The reality is these were cultural norms, not necessarily "thus saith YHWH", that have all been tossed out the window in this day and age.

And if you want to understand why... well the ancient model had many problems. Women's rights, for one, were almost nonexistent. Women were not treated as equals. Men basically sold their daughters. You could argue that the bride price was paid to show the husband could take care of her but in reality anything that can be used for profit will be used for profit. And while some men are honorable and love their daughters, some men will kill their daughters for denying them their "right" to sell their virginity.

So there's that.

The ancient system was supportive of arranged marriages, like I just pointed out. Falling in love wasn't always the goal. Women were even taken as spoils of war and given little time to mourn their slain families.

And then men could also marry multiple women. So what happened then? They would abandon one in order to take another. The law changed to try to prevent this so it established that you still had to take care of previous wives to the standard of living they were accustomed to.

But there's another weakness in this system.

It doesn't actually let the 2 people figure out if being together for the rest of their lives will work. There was nothing about compatibility, personality, etc. So for many reasons a wife may not have loved her husband or vice versa. Sure, she looked good but is that enough?

So this is why society changed and we started living together first and having sex first to test our compatibility over a period of time before making such a big decision that would deeply affect the children. Many people thought that children were good as long as their parents were together and therefore marriage vows were always "til death". That's not for the benefit of human beings in love. If you're in love you don't have to promise to stay with someone. You stay with them because you love them. Period. Marriages were contracts based on property rights. Property owners wanted assurance that their investments wouldn't run away.

Now we know that it is better to be happy and for children to see happy and healthy relationships. Children whose parents stayed together aren't handing out medals if that relationship lacked in love and affection.

Are we perfect now? Do we have relationships figured out now? No. But what we're doing now is better than ancient times. You just have to look at it from a human perspective.

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 1/21/2023 10:13:22 AM

When discussing things of livity and morality that are not common practice in the Western cesspit, like conscious fornication, we should remember that these practices are not constricted to being solely ancient or biblical. Speak to some Sudanese brethren whether Muslim or Rastafari, many have never experienced a culture of alcohol fuelled promiscuity and ignorance as we have become used to being in the proximity of.

As Rastafari and conscious individuals based in the West, sometimes it can be difficult to remember from our vantage that actually, we are not as isolated as we think. Many people of this planet and many cultural systems of this planet in this modern era, do not live like or share any desire to live like the examples set by ‘Roman’ EuroAmerica.

Side note over

I give thanks

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 1/23/2023 5:31:06 PM

Although I agree with what GA said the difference between these times and ancient times is that ancient people didn't have the internet. So what was under the sun wasn't new. It was just easier to hide.

And yeah, they didn't have the biotech to have transgender people and things like that. But like one of the first bible stories just after the flood was Noah getting wasted drunk and having his "nakedness uncovered" and then Lot getting what? Wasted drunk and his daughters trying to get pregnant by him. Then we have one of my favorite stories about Onan pulling out so as not sleep with his brother's ex but without getting her pregnant like he was supposed to. I can keep going.

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