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The message of Christ

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Messenger: native root Sent: 9/20/2005 10:48:59 PM

"born in sin" another lie that can be found in the bible

Messenger: Ark I Sent: 9/20/2005 11:08:34 PM

I feel that the statement about being born in sin has been misinterpreted by the churches. They use it as an excuse to sin, because they claim that they were born that way.

I and I Life is our Mother's Life, I and I Life is our Father's Life. That is how Humans Live, through their generations.

A person is in sin, because he or she hasn't turned to righteousness. So if I and I look at a person as more than just the lifespan that the people of the world consider a lifespan to be, and instead look at their lifespan as beginning at the beginning of Creation and Itinuing today, from Foreparent to Foreparent, then I and I can have a better Iverstanding of that statement. Since all of we are still living in sin, the only time we get out of sin is if we or our future generations get out of sin. That is why a child born is considered to be born in sin, because that person has not yet turned to Jah. And when I say person, I am referring to the child, the parents and all of the ancestor before as One person.

Ark I
Haile Selassie I

Messenger: Empress Nzingha Sent: 9/20/2005 11:30:24 PM

With the utmost respect to you Ark I, I must say that is the biggest load of crap I've heard lately. Mostly because it's actually a worse explination for native sin then the one that condems the act of reproduction. How can you possibly live with yourself when you place the sins of an entire species on a newborn?

I was really trying to avoid this whole discussion but obviously, that is simply not possible.

If, in fact there is a native sin it is this, when a baby is born into this plane of existance it has the karma of it's previous life to work out.

MY God is one of justice and equality, One who does not assign the sin of another to anyone. One who expects a being to take responsibility ONLY for itself. One who has sent messengers to witness physical life first hand in order to argue on man's behalf in Heaven. So that etherial beings could judge the misdeads of man justly. Rather than having no account of the trials and tribulations of the physical being.

My God is perfect automaticly. My God needs no justification. My God has no equal, living or otherwise. My God cannot be reduced to petty human urges or reasonings. My God created all that is and manages all that ever even thought to be. My God is too large to be pieced or put into some weak human body that can be damaged or destroyed. My God is too far above the sin of man to care one way or the other.

It seems to me that some of the Idren suffer from vanity. Believing that what they do matters to someone other than themselves, or that their actions can somehow go against the plan of the Almighty Architect, Creator of Creation, One which all others are only a part of.

Messenger: Ark I Sent: 9/20/2005 11:44:19 PM

About your comment about karma. I see the childs previous life as the Life of their Mother and Father.

You said,
How can you possibly live with yourself when you place the sins of an entire species on a newborn?

That is not what I was saying. I was saying that that person (From foreparents to child) didn't yet turn away from sin.

Ark I
Haile Selassie I

Messenger: Empress Nzingha Sent: 9/21/2005 10:55:11 AM

How can someone's previous life be the life of someone else?
More importantly, what kind of sin do you have to commit for it to pass down to your children?
Isn't it enough that our children must inherit the world we leave, must they also inherit our sins? What kind of world is that?
You make a very good argument for human sterilization.

Messenger: Ras KebreAB Sent: 9/21/2005 12:06:27 PM

Idren , do you not overstand oness? How can you accept the oness of Jah and not accept the oness of InInInI?
In my younger days before Jah call i i used to read in the bible how Jah shall visit the sins of the fathers upon their children and their childrens children and i used to say No, how can Jah be so cruel that He would punish the innocent children for what they do not? This day i accept the concept of the "I". What you do affects I, what blemishes you blemishes I.
Jah has set the foundation from creation and not even Jah will change that again.So if you go against the set foundation of Jah and Nature you will suffer and so will your children not because sin is "transfered" but because your actions affect not only you and your children but all of InI
What is your concept of "sin" anyway. Forget the christian even muslim concept of sin which makes it seem like sin is a thing you carry around like some disease or somethingTo I sin is any thing which makes you stray away ´from the father. It is not Jah punishing us, We punish ourselves
For example, if you believe a lie then it is obvious that you would teach the same lie to your children as if it was the truth.Soyour children will suffer for that lie as you will suffer. No true???
I think that we have been taught a wrong concept of God them say, if you do this or that God will punish you. Its not that Jah is some kind of egomaniac sitting somewhere punishing him and her.
Here is a parable
A man has two very young sons, let us say they are twins.they are alike in every imaginable way except by name.Now the father and sons are sitted around the fire. Now the father must go somewhere and come back.
So he takes one of his sons aside and says to him, son while i am away do not put your hand in the flames. If you do so, when i come back i will punish you severely
Then he takes the other son and says to him, son while i am away do not put your hands in the fire. if you do so the fire will burn you and will peel off your skin.
Now you tell me which of the sons will be the first to put his hand in the fire
Obvious, it will be the first one who will think that since the father is away ..........

Messenger: Empress Nzingha Sent: 9/21/2005 12:47:40 PM

So then what is the point of having children?
Or perhaps what is the purpose of redemtion?
How can anyone take resbonsibility for self if self includes the deeds and misdeeds of every ancestor?
How can one atone for sins that have been comitted without ones knowledge?
What is the point of faith, or justice, or equality if one must suffer the consequences of all that go before?
What is the point of life if one starts out at the bottom?
How does universal law factor in if I must be "punished" for the "sins" of my ancestors?
What hope is there for future generations?
And what motivation is there to be rightious if my sins will simply be handed down to my offspring?
Why would each being be judged seperatly if we are ultimatly judged as one?
Why are there so many people if each is responsible for all that have already come and gone?
What hope is there for salvation?
What kind of God has such an obvious imperfection in His judgement?
If it is fact that I must carry the sins of my ancestors then I renounce my faith here and now and refuse to procreate. In fact I might as well commit suicide and save myself and my offspring the trouble of an uphill battle for humanity. As there is no atonement for slavery, genocide, molestaion or torture and I'm sure that somewhere along the lines I have at least one ancestor guilty of each of these crimes.
My God does not burden me with more than I can handle. God may hand me the world of my ancestors, but how can He also hand me their karma?
At what point does one pay for their own sins?
This line of resoning is flawed, to say the least. Where did this come from?

Messenger: Ras KebreAB Sent: 9/21/2005 1:25:41 PM

Sistren, i dont know what is on your mind but you are taking my reasoning into parts that i never intended.

just answer i this

If u teach your child an untruth, a lie, a falsity, will not your child suffer??
I am sure that you, just like I and many others, have within their families, family members who claim to be catholics or whatever.And no matter how you try to reason with them and show them that many of their core belifs are false, they still hold fast to their ignorance. For example, everyone in my family, claims the sabath is on sunday while i have to keep the sabath on saturday on my own. Now they know, when christ was doing his works on the sabath and the jewish priests say to him why do you work on the sababth, He did not say to them No the sabath is not today, All He said is I am Doing My Fathers work. even though i show them all this things still they wont listen. And Why?? because hey, it was good enought for their fathers so its good enough for them. This is an example of how the sins of the fathers are inherited by their children

Messenger: Empress Nzingha Sent: 9/21/2005 1:47:42 PM

"If u teach your child an untruth, a lie, a falsity, will not your child suffer??"
How does that equal sin?
Who comes into the world knowing these things?
How can you call teaching a child a untruth original sin?
Does this theory not still mean that a child is clean until it is taught something?
Can one truly be punished for ignorance?
Does the Bible not say honor thy father and mother?
Who cares what day the sabath is, as long as you observe a sabath?
Do you really think God will care if you take your sabath on Saturday or Sunday or Monday for that matter?

Messenger: NineMile2004 Sent: 9/21/2005 6:29:39 PM

Greetings in the name of the most high

To me it is like this as of where i am right now

InI are all ONE, so InI can only achieve complete rigtheousness and happyness if all of InI live their lifes that way. But InI all must work out InI personal lifes to achieve this wonderful goal. So I believe that the I can eliminate personal sin but the I will still live in a sinful reality until all brethren and sistren can eliminate Sin. Seen?

InI must work on an individual basis as well as with the brethren and sistren. Each one teach one and just as Babylon would say its like Synergy. Seen?

Much love.

PS: Ark I so if the I can eliminate sin, we still did not eliminate past generations sin? I think InI cant eliminate it unless InI can go back in time. InI can only make it better by eliminating it from InI immediate life

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Haile Selassie I