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Heaven and Hell

1 - 1011 - 2021
Time Zone: EST (New York, Toronto)
Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 2/11/2023 11:55:38 AM

Heaven and Hell are misunderstood concepts. Let me get straight to the point. Heaven is not a place. Hell is not a place. Heaven and Hell are temporal states of the future.

What many understand as prophecy is basically educated predictions. This predictive ability also plays a role in "blessings and curses". These 2 things intersect in the 5th commandment

12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

It's not just saying "don't do something" here. It's saying, if you do this you will probably have a longer life. The implication is that if you don't do it then your life may be significantly shorter. That doesn't mean there's some kind of magic involved. It just means that if you listen to the wisdom of previous generations you will be able to avoid mistakes that could ruin or even cost you your life. Actions... have consequences.

But here's the thing...

An individual's actions can have individual consequences but they can also affect someone else; like a virus. Actually, I think sin is best described as a viral idea. The more infected people you have the more the infection spreads and the more likely each person is to be "touched" by the virus.

"Sin" works the same way. Whether you sin or not, the commission of the crime is only one part of it. That's the action. But actions have consequences (reactions). So society experiences the consequences of our actions just like if we throw trash on the beach. Everyone in the world isn't going to see your trash or accidentally step on it. But you are still polluting the same environment you share with others. And if everyone does the same as you then every public beach will have trash.

Heaven and Hell are basically just two sides of the same dualistic coin. And it's exactly what Cain was told in Genesis.

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.

This was the same kind of moralistic prediction that was applied to Adam and Eve. Not listening to their Father meant their days would not be as long upon the land. I don't think it was an absolute literal "You will die in 3 days." like The Ring. It's basically saying, now that you are sick you will likely need some medication or else it will spread until it eventually kills you. This is sound reasoning, no matter what one's chosen beliefs are.

In time, laws had to be given because humans were reproducing the virus such that they had to be told what to and what not to do.

But it was always as simple as 1 John 3. Without love, the virus of sin spreads and makes us sick because not only do we have to deal with our own consequences but also the consequences of others. When love is spread and multiplied you create Heaven. When Sin is spread and multiplied you create hell. Both exist in a quantum state of flux with only our choice deciding which one becomes real.

Heaven is not a place you go to. It is a place you create. A garden is a place you create, not simply a place you go to. If someone else creates a garden they can kick you out because it's their garden. But there is nothing that even slightly suggests that we cannot create our own garden. There is no suggestion that all the plants and animals in Eden were different than the ones outside of Eden. It was simply that outside the garden, Adam (the name given to humankind) would have to work for it.

It's not easy to love everyone. Some people make it next door to impossible because they live in Hell (outside of love). But the more love we have, the more we can share it and the more love others will have if more love is shared with them. This is the "work" that creates Heaven around us.

Religious people often understand that Hell = "separation from God" but then fail to understand that "God is love" so in metaphor algebra this means that those who are separated from love are those who are suffering in Hell. And it is a mental/psychological "place" of eternal torment; not physical, but emotional damage.

Each person makes a choice. Heaven or hell. But the choice to live in one is also the choice to destroy the other. People who are suffering outside of love may not know how to love. Therefore, the hurts they are inflicted with are the hurts they inflict on others. It can get to the point that one's inner demons manifest to become someone else's outer demons. And this makes it very hard to love them. And because it's hard to love them they don't receive the love that would heal them and make them human and humane again. And without healing, they simply continue to spread the virus and hurt other people. And we judge them unworthy of our love for that reason, but that very reason is the very reason we need to love them. Love must become a radical revolution that goes against our instinct to hate and to say "I am not my brother's keeper".

You can't create a garden without seeds and you can't create Heaven without conquering hate with love.

Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 2/12/2023 1:46:15 PM

Greetings Iyah

Yes I agree very much with the I reasoning here. And I have experienced it in my own life, how I can create my own heaven or hell.

And I think I see where this line of reasoning is coming from considering the recent happenings on the forum. Showing love to people we disagree with can help them to see another option, possibly. Hopefully.

I think it's possible to exist in a hellish landscape while experiencing heaven, also. 2020 as a year was an example of that for me. Everyone around me was scrambling in fear, yet I was experiencing probably the highest vibrational state I have ever experienced, totally in a state of bliss and love. I even was on such a high plane that I got out of touch with reality to a point where I could not understand why people around me were not smiling. In my job in customer service I would ask people "How are you?" and sometimes people would respond "I'm okay." and I would say "Come on you can do better than that!" Forgetting, not realizing, that people are often in such a state of suffering that "okay" truly is all they can muster.

I have since experienced such extreme difficulties and tragedies that I now have compassion for those "okay" people. I myself strive for a state of "okay" some days. And that's also okay. Life is not always perfect and we all go through those "dark nights of the soul" at times. We only have to make it through to the other side, and grow ourselves in resilience, and build ourselves up from bad to okay to good all over again.

On a spiritual level I often practice this idea, though, of fighting hate with love. I have "love arrows" that I use in the spiritual realm to shoot at demonic entities. If I ever in my pre dream states or meditations see some evil entities I shoot the love arrows at them. It always works because love either transforms the entity or it is too high vibration for them and they have to flee.

It's like the saying "You don't fight fire with fire." You don't fight hate with hate, love is the weapon that can be victorious over hate. It takes extreme fortitude and being in touch with the ultimate Love, the creator's love, for us to be a conduit of love on that magnitude.

Give thankhs IPX Ninja for this reasoning. More Love Iyah

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 2/17/2023 9:26:12 AM

And he took me by the locks of my head and a spirit lifted me between the heaven and the earth with the vision of Jah where I saw idols sat in the seat of jealousy. Jah say, do you see the abominations the House of Israel are doing? They have turned to idol worship and violence…………. I will act with wrath, I will not spare them or pity them, if they cry out I will not hear them. I will smite them. My judgement will not be delayed, but in your days oh rebellious house.

Ezekiel Ezekiel Ezekiel
(Not a direct quote!)

I like this book as it deals with reward and consequence in the then and now
Keeping to your meditation (moving in oneness as likened to the cherubims)
As well as the tribalism and jealous nature of bible god and contradictory passive nature of modern Christians


Messenger: Alabaster ointmnt Sent: 2/17/2023 9:40:42 PM

I hate this notion of heaven or hell ,I feel trapped . Rastafari is freeing ,as long as I know I trod forward with a pure heart

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 2/21/2023 8:29:53 AM

JAH Child: Everyone around me was scrambling in fear, yet I was experiencing probably the highest vibrational state I have ever experienced, totally in a state of bliss and love.


This is also the same state that some would call "nirvana".

Heaven is in the mind. The more you act upon these positive vibrations inside... love, peace, happiness, ...light... the more your behavior reflects your mental state and other people around you start to feel those vibes and either fast or slow (depending on the person and their situation) that has a positive effect on people in your vicinity.

The same way we pass a virus around we can also pass "the cure".

Case in point...

Growing up, I had this nagging feeling that the music everyone was listening to had a programmatic effect on their psyche. As a teenager, I believed we needed to at least have a balance but it was better to listen to positive music/lyrics. So I mostly grew up on a diet of gospel music and reggae. Reggae was perfect because where gospel failed to speak to the realities of life the way that was expressed in early hip hop with groups like Public Enemy and even NWA, Reggae always told it like was. Even when it was hardcore it was still... "spiritual" to me. I know that sounds strange. But when, for instance, Bounty Killa said "Look into my eyes" I could connect with his perspective of the struggle to simply survive. And without help, I understood how he, speaking for many, could feel that they have to do what (they believe) they have to do.

We live in a society that has lost its way. The ownership society of capitalism has allowed the few to win. And now they own practically everything. Those who own nothing in this type of society/game are the losers. And if you are a "loser" it's hard to survive. And so that desperation and despair... that anger building up because the youths know that there should be more; more options and more opportunities. We gave birth to them without a plan; only the individual pieces of a better life that we could hide away from an ever more demanding world. So those who inherit everything can live behind gates and spoil themselves in absolute financial security while those who inherit nothing may go hungry if they do not make the choice that they really don't want to make.

But that is hell. It's a place of fire where people burn mentally, spiritually, and emotionally. We sometimes talk about the mental chains of slavery because black people can feel the effects throughout time. But if that's true then there are also mental representations of psychological constructs. Hate. Jealousy. Envy. And other things Jamaicans would simply call "bad mind". A bad mind will pull others down into hell with you because that's where you are.

But conversely, again I say, you can create heaven around you like a garden. And you can grow your own flowers and trees and cultivate them all. You may not live to see the trees you plant mature. Trees can live for hundreds and even thousands of years. So if we're talking about a garden, a garden can outlive the gardener and other people can enjoy it.

I told my coworker that there is a mental thing that happens when you walk through your house and its clean but also a mental thing that happens when you clean a mess someone else has made. So she got her kids to help and she cleaned her house real good and now she feels better and more productive at home. And the kids even like it too. It's a positive vibe. Imagine if we cleaned the world. Imagine if we created small gardens... everywhere. Yes, physically it seems impossible because it's like every millimeter of earth is owned by someone. But there is a mental landscape that no one can own. And there you can experience joy and happiness. You can clean your mind of all its impurities just like the ritual purification of baptism. You can clean your mind. It's not that different from "freeing your mind" because you are freeing it from the impurities that threaten to bind you to hell.

Elevate your spirit. That is spirituality. You can ascend from hell even to heaven depending on how far your mind is willing to travel.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 2/21/2023 8:34:26 AM

In the early days of AOL, I used to hang out in a chat room and kids would come in slandering God, and spewing hatred towards religion in the worst most disrespectful and sacrilegious ways. But regardless of their beliefs, it was like there was something broken inside them. So when I questioned them one-on-one... I had to ask... "what kind of music do you listen to?"

"Marilyn Manson"
"Marilyn Manson"
"Marilyn Manson"


They were miserable. Suicidal. They were cutting themselves. And if they stopped to think about it they probably had way more than the poor kids in a different neighborhood. They didn't even know what they had. They were blind to it. Because they were MENTALLY in hell. And so they came in the room acting like demons to the point I, then a teenage Christian, falsely assumed they were actually demonic and assumed, falsely, they were coming from the pagan chat room. Because it seemed like an organized invasion and there was no other chatroom that could be responsible to my Christian brain.

And so I went in there... into the pagan chat full of mostly Wiccans.

vibes. The vibes were all positive. All love. Better vibes than the Christian chatroom. Everyone was perfectly welcoming, loving, and happy. My assumptions were absolutely wrong and I never forgot that experience. That was 30 years ago.

And so I saw that we Christians... weren't as nice as the pagans we thought were worshipping satan. It was in our heads. And that's where reality is created. Inside of our perception. Why does a child who is constantly told he is stupid act stupid? He becomes whatever he believes. If you can make someone believe they are bad, they will be. Because identity is in your head. We simply act out what we believe ourselves to be. If you want to be good or righteous... then see yourself as good and as righteous. Some of us need a law to confer with to help us feel that way. Others simply need to understand that it's about love and positive energy.

However you need to get it, get it.

But once you get it... once you plant those seeds in your mind like 1 John 3, that's when the transformation happens. And that's when you can return to the garden. And you can tend that garden, not just for yourself, but for everyone you love who has access to it. That's heaven.

Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 2/21/2023 10:32:10 PM

Good evening Idren IPX, Lovefull greetings to the I
Haha that AOL chatroom story is great, give thankhs for sharing that. Very interesting how the perceptions can often be so wrong about other belief systems.

My question is this:
How to cultivate a personal heaven?

Keeping the surroundings clean yes I agree that is a big one. There's a reason people used to say "cleanliness is next to godliness".

What other methods can we use to cultivate those positive vibrations?

For me, comedy is a big one. Finding things that are truly funny to me and make me laugh out loud. Shows, memes, movies whatever it might be.

Yoga is always a great tool for me too.

I wonder what other ways everyone uses to stay positive, to raise vibrations, to create their own heaven?

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 2/22/2023 4:47:42 AM

Give us a better way
Things are really bad
The only fren I know
Is this gun I have
You been talkin bout
You want the war to cease
But when you show us how
Then we will show you peace
Look into my eyes
Tell me what you see
Can you feel my pain
Am I your enemy…..

No need to explain why that one connected Bredda that’s a worldwide international African peoples anthem who have witnessed any hardship in Babylon. That tune deh…….. the rhythm and counter rhythms connect in perfect unison with the vocal delivery of an emotive anthropological crisis.

Yes XP.
Dah riddim deh
Mods don’t ban my post for the gun talk

Interruption over.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 3/1/2023 6:49:56 PM

JAH Child: How to cultivate a personal heaven?

Great question.

My thoughts on this go back to the garden of Eden.

Let's think of it in a different way.

What if the garden of Eden was just a model? In other words, when we design a new car we don't immediately put it on the road. We design and engineer it in 3D as a simulation. This allows us to study it and see how it works before actually building it. We then test it and see how it might break or perform in accidents in order to protect the driver.

Eden was something given to Adam (name give to humanity as a whole). We are of the ground so the ground is Adamah, which for those who know a little Hebrew is a feminine word because of the "Ah" ending. So... let's just say "mother earth".

Eden is given to Adam but Adam is also tested in Eden. Adam failed the test so Adam is kicked out of the garden that was given.

But here's the thing. As much as people talk about heaven, what is it that God said to Adam? He said that Adam would have to work the ground. In other words, the responsibility of building his own garden was given to Adam. It isn't about being handed heaven as a gift. To be handed heaven without creating it yourself is like a rich man gifting all of his wealth to his child without the child ever having to work. Not only might that child be spoiled, but that child doesn't know how to create the same conditions for their own child.

This brings up the old saying about giving a man fish vs teaching a man how to fish.

As long as a person believes in a heaven that is given to them, they will tacitly destroy this earth. We see this in debates between science and religion (mainly Christianity) because the latter is less concerned about saving the planet because the latter believes that God will destroy it anyway and take them to heaven.

But what this is... really... is a simulation. It is a matrix that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you do not take care of the garden you will destroy the garden. You can blame it on God "kicking you out" but the reality is that the guilt falls on man. The test is maintaining that relationship with the environment that was originally present when it was gifted. The idea of the gift has blinded and corrupted us. These two things (garden + dominion), if you think about it, evolved into the modern concepts of "wealth" and "power". These too are not handed out and if they were the lack of building it ourselves would be problematic in terms of how we use them.

I say corrupted. We say power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely so imagine a human being suddenly given absolute power. To say colossal mistake would be the understatement of the year. Humans chase a distribution of power through a pyramid system of society.

This is the main problem in society. All other problems are extensions of this. How do we treat wealth and power?

The fact is, nowhere in Genesis did God ever say "Do not build your own garden". Feel free to check me on that. Adam was simply told that he was going to be responsible. It would not be a gift. Somehow, in reading it we just assumed that we had failed so miserably hard that we had to earn our way back, as individuals, to a point where we could once again be GIVEN a paradise.

But this is a spoiled child still wanting the gift because the gift means not having to do the work yourself. So what Adam had to build it with the sweat of his brow. Consider the fact that we've built robots. Am I constantly vacuuming my house? No. I have robots that vacuum every day. But we built that. We weren't given that. And being forced to build what we need and want creates a better sense of responsibility and a connection with our creations. Man was told to create/procreate.

Now in talking about building the garden I could and will talk about the personal garden, but I wanted to start with this larger view. Heaven is at hand. Heaven is made with your own two hands around you. It grows as you plant. You cannot harvest what you do not plant. So everything is about the seed. We need spirituality because we need the seed of God planted in our hearts so that righteousness grows in us so that our works will be righteous. That is the only way to be responsible with what we build/create. The OT threatened our children to the third and fourth generation because it emphasized that our decisions create heaven and hell for our offspring. And if you only care about what affects you today... then what about the world left for our children tomorrow? Adam was never one person. Adam is a species. We have to take care of our species. We have to go through these stories to see where we went wrong. Cain and Abel went wrong. How can we fix that? How can we simulate a better outcome and then make that the norm? How can we take care of earth and respect it?

This is the foundation. Once we have these lessons... once we have "consumed" the book... once we are responsible citizens of this planet instead of spoiled children who want to be handed wealth and power? Then we can handle wealth and power. And heaven will come naturally, because we will naturally create it. Now again... on a personal garden level we can discuss further what that looks like.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 3/2/2023 9:58:53 AM

Balance is the key.

We are both individuals and part of a collective. What we do must work on both levels. If you are completely selfish the collective will suffer. If you are completely selfless the individual will suffer.

Yeshua told the rich man that it was very difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom. That's because wealth was a corruptive influence that likely meant you were taking more from society than you are giving.

Sometimes people misquote the bible saying "money is the root of all evil". This is because our imbalances result in extremist views that go beyond what the text says. When he says blessed are the poor, its not telling you to be poor. They collected tithes for the purpose of taking care of the poor. Everyone can't be poor. Poor is a relative term. If everyone had a penny then someone who finds an extra penny would be rich. But a society where the cost of living is more than a penny is a society that cannot support itself. In order to support the poor, people had to have enough extra to contribute. What was said about the poor was that they would have treasure in heaven. This simply means they would be returned to a state of balance. If "treasure" was the enemy then why would heaven be a place where treasures exist if it is not a place where sin is allowed to exist? Again, nothing is wrong with wealth itself.

The correct quote is "for the love of money is the root of all evil". In other words, what we're talking about is an "unhealthy attachment" to wealth, better known as "greed".

Is it necessary for some doctors to make $500,000 a year? No. The average person can't pay for this. Everything to do with a hospital is expensive. At least in the US. If you sleep at a motel you might pay $60-100. But if you have to involuntarily sleep at a hospital? The average insured overnight hospital stay is around $15,000. Does that sound right?

And so if you are unlucky enough to need surgery most people couldn't even afford that without the aid of an insurance company. Therefore we end up spending money we don't even need to spend just in case bad luck falls on us. The average premium for single coverage in 2022 in the US is around $8,000 per year.

So the bottom line is that in order for some professions to make the money they do, that money has to come from somewhere. Sure... one could argue that this salary is necessary because who would want to do it otherwise? Long hours. The possibility of your patient dying. The cost of education. The time spent getting that education.

Does every doctor do it in order to get paid? What about saving lives? Is that not enough motivation? Or are we training people to think that some jobs are just worth more? So why is it cheaper in other countries? This is just one example. People at the top of the corporate ladder make huge amounts of money and they simply make it the culture of that corporation that financial compensation is a carrot for good work; for making millions for the company and its shareholders. But again... that money has to come from somewhere.

When they make money it comes from their consumers and when they pay more money, for anything, it also comes from their consumers. And because the burden is borne by people outside the company, people who they don't have to care about, people who are imagined to have infinitely deep pockets, the prices of goods and services simply go up to compensate. This raises the cost of living and results in more people falling under the poverty line. This is often how one man's "heaven" becomes another man's hell. There is always a system of wealth distribution that dictates who will be the citizens of heaven and hell on an individual level.

To me, this system is Babylon. It's part of white supremacy because the tendency of white supremacy is to put in place systemic mechanisms to segment the classes of society, and the levels of the pyramid scheme so that they are more likely to find themselves in the middle. And the dream of the middle is to get to the top. Getting to the top from the bottom can happen, but statistically, even if you "earn it" via some talent you can perform, it is still and will always be a "lottery". This lottery gives off the impression of fairness while not being fair. The cost for the lottery is simply passed on to everyone who plays the lottery. You can't win if you don't play.

Why am I saying all this? What does this have to do with a personal heaven?

Yeshua was not wealthy, but as a rabbi, he provided a service to people that they were willing to pay for. He simply didn't have the trappings of a house and white picket fence because rabbis were traveling teachers. If he stayed in one place that would mean people would have to interrupt their daily lives and work in order to travel to him. His popularity made some people do this anyway and that led to the miracle of feeding the 5,000. Although this sounds impressive, it is also a logistical nightmare creating a burden that should not have existed. Imagine a Christian going to live at their pastor's house or even the church where he preaches. What if they give up their jobs? How would they be taken care of? Why would they expect to be taken care of by the person providing them with the service?

Yeshua talked to his disciples about being fishers of men. Fisherman is a profession. He told a parable of good stewardship. He said that the master gave his servants money to invest and the good servant was the one who gained the highest return on his investment. The servant who simply returned the money was called wicked and lazy. Again... Adam was responsible for building his garden. Whatever we have should go into building our garden but you don't just run out and spend all your money. This is a story about responsibility. You have to invest. If you make wise investments, if you are responsible with what you have, you can get more. If we don't have a rich employer to get money from (in addition to salary) we can get money from a bank.

We live in a capitalist society but that's not new. Society has been based on ownership for a long time; typically tied to the land. Having wealth, therefore, creates the power to invest and grow more wealth. But again... we are blinded by corruption; both in terms of gaining too much money (greed) but also in terms of avoiding money as well. It's not about avoiding money or being poor or rich. It's about being responsible with whatever you have. The more you have the more you can help others. If you are poor you are a burden to those who need to help you and could be helping someone else instead. Personally, I'd rather help someone who needs it rather than someone who is lazy or simply squanders opportunities.

If we do not teach our children how to get to the middle of this capitalist pyramid... if we do not invest in them and show them how to invest and how to build and how to create... if we don't give them the values of working hard and not being greedy... what world will they create?

1 - 1011 - 2021

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Haile Selassie I