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Abortion rights - Supreme court may overturn Roe v Wade

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Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 5/3/2022 10:29:20 AM

My sister brought this to my attention.
Has anyone seen that the US Supreme Court seems to have voted (not yet published the vote) to overturn the decision on Roe v Wade.
So this means that the rights to abortion would not be federally granted, but it would be up to each state's lawmakers to decide.

I guess my initial thought is that this is not really as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. Effectively it would change very little. States that want to allow abortion will continue to do it. Women who want to have abortion will continue to do it. We are too far past the days where it might have been that every single state would ban abortions and it would go back to being completely illegal - there are just too many liberal lobbyists who would not allow it to happen, too many states that have a liberal constituency who would not allow it to happen in their state.

And I am not sure abortion should be a political issue or a legal issue at all - it is a spiritual issue and a medical issue. We should probably address it from those angles, if we truly want to end abortion.

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 5/5/2022 5:03:49 PM

I think it's terrible, personally.

If we can think back, for a second, to the Black Codes...

to a time when Whites practically outlawed being black...

It may seem like it's not a big deal but it erodes the separation between church and state and allows old white evangelical men to dictate what women do with their bodies the same way they dictated what black people were allowed to do with their after slavery was "ended".

Using the black codes, they could, for example, outlaw loitering as well as not having a job. If a black person couldn't find a job they might have to go back to work for their former master or risk being sent to prison.

Laws should never be trusted. It was Federal law that banned slavery. Certain states would have kept it far longer; probably until it was no longer profitable. So the argument for states' rights depends on who's running/controlling the states. The laws against black people were written such that a slave who had escaped the south could still be sent back and returned to his master. So I wouldn't trust southern states not to have draconian laws that not only do not allow abortion, but don't allow abortions to be sought out of state, punish insurance companies for providing women's health care, or fair exemptions for rape and incest.

The result could be a bunch of children no one wants, flooding the foster care system, orphanages, etc. more gangs, more drugs, more violence, etc.

A lot of the people who will write these draconian laws aren't "pro-life" because they don't mind killing people or leaving people in poverty with low quality of life. They just want to appear pious and righteous and show that they are better than others.

And being "pro-life" goes against the bible. Abortions were not only lawful, biblically speaking, but sometimes necessitated by the law to protect the woman. Abortion was not considered murder in the bible unless the child was closer to actually being born. But a lot of these "pro-life" people don't care what the bible says.

There's a video with Christian, Jewish, and Muslim leaders all voicing support for a woman's right to choose.

Messenger: Olivebranch Sent: 5/5/2022 11:05:52 PM

The right to life it's your choice , nice post !

I believe every women pray and make your choice, have guidance of course.

Those who want to have abortions will have them they will just go where they have that right. The law holds it power.

Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 5/7/2022 12:25:55 AM

It's something I have been thinking about more over the past few days.

I do think that some states will end up outlawing abortion and I am not for that idea, yet at the same time I am not in support of a federal government controlling states laws in supersession of what the constituents in that state actually voted for. What I would love to see is that there are no anti abortion laws in any states, yet no one has unnecessary abortions anyways because they have evolved beyond that as a society. That is a far off dream, though.

Still, I can never really lend my agreement to any type of government. I am an anarchist in the sense that I want humanity to evolve spiritually to the point where we do the right thing without needing laws. Will it ever be possible? I think in eternity of time it is possible, but we have so much to change...

I thought about the show Handmaid's Tale. Has anyone watched this show? I wondered if we could ever get to that point - if outlawing abortion could actually happen on a large scale, and then all of the other repressions of women that occurred afterwards on that show. I thought about women's suffrage - I wondered if it would ever be possible that women's right to vote were taken away? Is this supreme court decision portending those kinds of futures? Probably not, but no one ever sees dictatorship coming until it's too late. It's a strange idea to consider.

Messenger: Black Christ in Flesh Sent: 5/7/2022 9:21:00 AM

Fire bon arbotion

Messenger: Cedric Sent: 5/7/2022 11:38:52 AM

Blessed Love Idren

JAH Child, Give thanks for sharing the I's views. "...I want humanity to evolve spiritually to the point where we do the right thing without needing laws." YES I! Well spoken and exactly how I feel as well.

I personally think any man should refrain from voting on this subject regardless of how strong his opinions may be. I think InI brothers need to be hands-off relating to laws that control wombyn bodies. Where would the vote be if no man was involved in the decision? I would be interested to see the outcome if that was the case.

That being said, I reasoned a little about this topic in another post, "Rastafari in Mainstream". I second post on that topic is where I dived in deepest.

"As for abortion, the Fetha Nagast only uses that term for “if a man makes a woman abort with poison and lies with her”. Later in the same paragraph it makes reference to if “women who commit adultery, kill their children, and hide their death” and the punishment for that was for that woman to be excommunicated from the community for ten years. I could see the argument that the words “killing her children” could relate to abortion, but why not use the words “abort her children” if they just used that word earlier in the paragraph? So to me they are talking about a woman who kills her children who are living outside her womb, and they don’t even reference a woman making the incredibly difficult decision of aborting the child inside her womb, or the automatic legal punishments that should go along with that."

This goes along with what Mutabaruka mentioned about how some just pick and choose the punishments they want to enforce from the bible. About 20 mins from the end of this video:

Mutabaruka: How Christianity Was Created/ Misleading Bible History


May InI choose the right way - RASTAFARI

Empress Menen I & HIM Haile Selassie I Love

Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 5/7/2022 8:45:31 PM

Black Christ Salvation I am with the I on that, fyah burn it, a purification need to take place. Just like anything tho its not a simple thing to say fyah burn. I dont think in those absolute terms. There is always room for contemplation of all the perspectives.

Cedric I was listening to I Kingman views on this yesterday and he started out saying much the same thing - it's a woman's issue and men should not have a decision in it. Then he said that he did consider what if he was with a woman and she get pregnant and decide to abort when he wanted to keep the baby. So then it becomes his issue too. I've known a couple of men that this happened to, and it was devastating for them. Yet it really is her body that goes through that pregnancy and how can a man force a woman to go through it if she doesn't want to? It seems like in that case if the woman wants to abort and the man wants to keep it, no one wins no matter what choice is made.

My Kingman did say that was why (one of the reasons why) he was always careful not to get anyone pregnant. But that is not always possible to prevent if sexual intercourse is occurring, no matter what contraceptives are used. So it's very important to choose your partner wisely and have those "what if" conversations before jumping into bed. If abortion is a strictly womens issue then how else can a man prevent his own child being killed in the womb? Except to choose a woman who would not do it.

I hadn't read that previous reasoning but I agree on what the I was mentioning about those quotes. I think the ancient world did take a different approach to abortion - literature tells us so as the I pointed out. My reason for being pro life is not coming from a religious doctrine, really just from my own ponderings as a woman asking myself would I ever have an abortion. And I have been raped. And I have also been in positions where I would regret if that man was the father of my child, that it was a bad choice to have sex with him at all. And I have taken care of many children who have disabilities or special needs. So I have really considered all the options from what I think is a very personally informed standpoint and I can still say I would not abort in any of those cases. So for my part personally I would say I am pro life.

Yet I do believe in autonomy in this life. Women who make that choice to abort have a soul journey that includes going through that karmic cycle. Fetuses who are aborted may have agreed to it on a soul level to enter a fetus and be killed in order to balance some cosmic scale - I don't know, I'm just thinking about the possibilities on a level that is higher than human. Maybe, possibly, if a woman aborts a child, her next life will be as a fetus who is aborted - I am just making examples. And being that the universe and all of existence is essentially one - oneness of allness - then the abortion itself is in a way a suicide, the life force is both woman and fetus at the same time. These kinds of ways of thinking lead down the road that says there is no right or wrong there is only experience... In a way yes it's true... yet high vibration and low vibration are also real...

I will also say that laws aside, herbalists have always known how to end a pregnancy using herbs. Which is still useful information if a woman does not have access to legal and safe medical abortion, she could educate herself on abortifactant herbs. The herbal route is not always 100% effective, though.

Yeah all in all I can't say I agree with any state making laws agaisnt abortion, although I am personally against it I would not impose that choice on everyone. I am against alcohol and meat consumption also. Yet I would not make laws against those things. Just hope that eventually humanity would rise above them.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 5/9/2022 11:26:17 AM

what if the next line of men's logic was "now that we can force women to have our children regardless of what they want, let's force them, by law, to be our wives automatically if they get pregnant."

Telling a woman what to do with her body is also telling her what to do with her life and men seem to want to make more inroads into that in general.

Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 5/11/2022 10:41:02 AM

IPX Ninja aint that the truth tho!
Give them an inch they take a mile heh heh not talking about the I but yeah in general the male gender has treated womban that way for the past few thousand years so yeah

A balance!

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 5/11/2022 3:48:52 PM


This "American" system... is not nearly as bad as we think it is; because our views and opinions are shaped by our own perspective being in the minority. Imagine if it was the other way around and we were a small minority that decided everything for the majority. Would that be fair? So it's all about balance.

The problem is that every aspect of life in America corresponds to a government position and by default all of those positions were "old white men". Old white men are good at being old white men. They're not good at being young black women. In fact, that is the opposite of what they are. So how can a bunch of old white men understand and dictate the lives of people who are so different from them? This is where representation comes in.

These supreme court justices knew what they were going to do a long time ago. They just didn't have the "votes" to do it. And it simply exposes the fact that they are not unbiased. They are representatives. The question is "representing who"? Are they representing the majority viewpoint in this country? No. Are they seeing the issue with some extra god-given clarity the rest of us do not possess? No. Hell no.

Women should be around 50% of the court in order for this to be a fair ruling. Either that or the votes of the women should count as double. Perhaps that would have been fair. What's not going to happen though is that men will simply give up power and control so women can have it. Women need to take whatever power they can get and be a true checks and balances to male power. That's why the "what does my man say" argument rubs me the wrong way; like a person is asking to be led and therefore also asking to be misled by the person willing to exploit that power dynamic.

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