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This AND That

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Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 1/29/2019 2:54:42 AM
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Hail Ones
Love of JAH and greetings

I just want to share a little lesson that I learned some years ago.
I remember I had this friend who was a very out of the box thinker. He wasn't perfect in all his ways, that's for sure. But a very deep thinker and had ways of seeing life that are different from most (even literally, being color blind).
I remember we were talking one day and he was making the point to me that "it's not This OR That, it's This AND That." His point was to say that, many times people think their view is the only right. And others with an opposite perspective think that person is wrong, and THEIR view is actually the right one. But this is a dualistic reality. And many times it is not one or the other that is right, but actually both. It was also a point that when holding two options in your mind, you don't have to choose one or the other. You don't have to have a set in stone mentality.
For example in his eyes the green trees that we were looking at, as we sat having this discussion, were the same color as the red flowers on the bushes. For me they were two obviously different colors. But it doesnt mean either one of us was right, both can be right at the same time.
Another example is the difference between study of physics of solid materials, and the study of particle physics. Both seem to be true at the same time in this seemingly material yet nonmaterial existence.

Rather than looking at life as a this OR that, what if we looked at it as this AND that?

I am not sure if this makes sense to everyone. But to me it made a lot of sense, and it allowed me to pull myself out of my own perspective and put myself behind the eyes of others, seeing how their opinions also could be right from where they are looking. It also let me be comfortable with unknowns or with seemingly opposing ideas both being true. It was a lesson in compassion and letting go of control, a lesson in duality.

And that phrase always stuck with me: "it's not this OR that, it's this AND that."



Messenger: Nesta1 Sent: 1/29/2019 3:45:39 AM
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JAH Child,
You friend was very wise. His observation is reminiscent of the yin and yang of Chinese (and Confucian) teaching in which ostensibly opposite or contrary forces may actually be complementary and work together.

Reality is an integration of contradictions and opposites: if a statement is true, the opposite can also be true (this is, of course, a no-brainer for anyone who's ever taken psychedelic mushrooms or acid). Conventional Western wisdom often views opposites as irreconcilable: 'it’s either this way or that way but it can’t be both simultaneously'. That perspective only sees part of the whole.

In other threads here, the notion of "white privilege" provides a case-in-point. To an out-of-work, down-on-his-luck, behind-on-the-rent, Red-State white man, the notion of "white privilege" is absurd; "Look at Obama", they say. To the African American who sees the lilly-white-lined mega-corporation boardrooms and corridors of power in Washington DC, "white privilege" is as plain as the nose on his face. Aren't both right?

The Babylon System turns the reality of yin and yang into a well-developed demonic art to convince all of the victims of the System to keep on fussin' and fightin' with one another while the masters of Babylon themselves just sit on the sidelines & giggle at the chaos they foment.

As i say, your friend was wise. When the day comes that those of a different perspectives realIze this and unite against Babylon, then the jig is up. Soon come that day.

"Cuz puss and dog they get together:
What's wrong with loving one another?"


Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 1/29/2019 4:45:12 AM
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I agree. And disagree.

This. And that.

What you speak to is subjectivenes and perception. However something's are just facts as per their definition. Some facts can be perceived differently while they still remain a set defined and outlined fact which either is or isn't..

For example.... if the brethren said the green leaves were red. He may perceive them as red. Which is true FOR HIM. But the fact is colour is predefined or factual based on the emission / absorption of wavelengths of the light spectrum. A measurable quantifiable fact.

Another example would be a person's ethnic history or national identity.

Whereas the subject of belief comes completely to the 'this and that' idea.


Rastafari a deep thinker

Blessed


Messenger: Nesta1 Sent: 1/29/2019 5:06:40 AM
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"But the fact is colour is predefined or factual based on the emission / absorption of wavelengths of the light spectrum."
Yes, "factual" within the realm of our understanding and perception, which are both quite limited. The larger Truth remains. Color names are simply arbitrary designators assigned by humans to certain parts of the spectrum. Nothing "absolute" about them except that the larger group of humans has deemed it so.
This philosophical debate is probably beyond what is productive here. i think the point about "this AND that" is well made and can stand alone.
In a sense, this goes to respecting the perceptions of others even as we try to persuade them to share our own.


Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 1/29/2019 5:53:43 AM
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Give thankhs Idren

Garveys Africa, I don't disagree with anything the I said. And I don't make the assertion that there is absolutely no absolute truth. Only that most things in life are either subjective as the I said, or they are, as Nesta said, true while other contrary things are also true. Like sides of a coin, maybe there are opposites within a whole truth.

And maybe in looking at things this way, we can all have more compassion for one another.

More Love


Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 1/29/2019 6:07:49 AM
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I overs the what the why and the where in relation to the origin of this thread. I hear and see you.

Rastafari


Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 1/29/2019 6:10:46 AM
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Give thankhs Garvey I
Rastafari


Messenger: Nesta1 Sent: 1/29/2019 6:29:18 AM
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This whole topic can mess with I head unless i take it easy with it because it's like moving out from the middle of an onion-- every time you think you've come to the last layer, there another and so forth. e.g., reading Chinese philosophy always does that to i.

I&i usually the one who finds myself reasoning the point of absolute truth - or absolute right and wrong, as least. i have some psuedo-intellectual acquaintances who will delight in explaining to me how everything is relative and what is wrong in one circumstance or context is right in another. I&I will maintain to them (and to my dying day) that to torture a child to death or to drop a bomb into the middle of a populated neighborhood is absolutely WRONG and that there is no circumstance the devil can cite to make those acts right. Mitigate, deceive, confuse the issue -- sure he can, all are possibilities; but make it right? Never.

Of course another absolute Truth is His Majesty and who He is, but all one has to do is read through these threads to see how many different ways His Majesty and His Teachings can be viewed and spun. Perspective.


Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 1/29/2019 6:56:58 AM
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Haha yes Nesta I can see how it can be a little bit of a mix up to think about all the possibilities and the opposing truths!

I have some absolute ideas also, but then sometimes I find with exploration they turn out to be only one side of the coin.

And probably yes there are some absolute truths or facts. But it sure is hard to know exactly what they are.

Thankhs for sharing the I views Nesta.


Messenger: Jahcub Onelove Sent: 1/29/2019 12:56:26 PM
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"it's not this OR that, it's this AND that."

Good reasoning JAH Child, makes me think about the oneness of life. Life is not black OR white, it's black AND white, with a full spectrum of possibilities in between. The "or" seems to represent divisions and absolutes; while the "and" seems to represent oneness, while still accounting for differences, the whole sum of possibilities.

One Perfect Love


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