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The Horrors of Communist China

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Messenger: The BANNED -- Hemphill Sent: 11/30/2018 10:36:20 AM
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I like how you are super critical of everything I say, yet when I prove your hypocrisy, you just say "uh okay".. Lol

Socialism, communism, and all forms of economoc dependency are death. Free market capitalism, free from fiat currency and insider trading, is the only proven path to true economic independence. China is not offering this. Obviously


Messenger: Nesta1 Sent: 12/5/2018 5:04:59 AM
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"Socialism, communism, and all forms of economoc [sic] dependency are death. Free market capitalism, free from fiat currency and insider trading, is the only proven path to true economic independence. "

Hmmm. There are so many things wrong about this statement that i don't think i'll even try to get into an argument about some of the socialist economies which have done just fine or the fact that all of the world's capitalist economies (even the good ole USA) incorporate some degree socialism (e.g., the government of the USA has always played some role in the economic affairs of the nation. Over the course of its history, many services began to come under the influence or direct control of the public sector.). A "true" or "absolute" free market economy requires that all property be owned by private individuals and all goods and services be privately provided. Prices are allowed to fluctuate based on supply and demand, and all transactions are voluntary, not compelled or restricted by the government.

Tack on "free from fiat currency and insider trading" and you don't really have any extant economy that meets all of those criteria, so its difficult to see how this can be "the only PROVEN path to true economic independence" [EMPHASIS ADDED]. Your contention is that an economy that incorporates socialism is "death". -- there's that hyperbole again.

If you go ahead listen to what Dr. Moyo is actually talking about, she makes quite a bit of sense. To allay concerns arising from your inherent capitalist bias, at the end of the day Dr. Moyo is pro-capitalism and pro-liberal-democracy. You should actually try listening to what she says as it is very intelligent and enlightening economic/political analysis.





Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 12/7/2018 10:13:42 AM
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"Socialism, communism, and all forms of economoc [sic] dependency are death. Free market capitalism, free from fiat currency and insider trading, is the only proven path to true economic independence. "

WRONG!

Every nation hides, to some degree, the social impact of its policies. 98% of the wealth in America is owned by 2% of the population. That alone is all one needs to condemn this current form of capitalism (which for the record is not pure capitalism).

The other part is that whenever you have corrupt people they influence whatever form of government and whatever form of economy you have because these are simply rule-based systems that can be hacked.

Plenty of people die in the US from poverty. More than plenty of people in the US are absolutely dependent on the system and upon others around them.

And even if they can get jobs wages are so stagnant that they often have to hold 2 jobs to survive.

The problem is that is hard to criticize one system without having a better answer.

I think socialized medicine works. I think some systems could work better in a more socialist or communist model. Like education. And then business could be both private and public because some industries could have a government option with limited budget so that the competition can be regulated and balanced. Right now we're giving tax dollars in the form of subsidies to corporations and it doesn't necessarily translate to benefitting average Americans. We also give subsidies to help our companies compete globally and sometimes they leave and move their headquarters anyway. The key is you got to get the corrupt people out of the way and end the rule of conservatives because they're more interested in the past than the future. And then you can have an honest and scientific approach to which system is the best for which situation.


Messenger: Nesta1 Sent: 12/7/2018 11:09:13 AM
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IPXninja,
Good points. What seems to be shaking out after a couple centuries post industrial revolution experimentation with economic theories is that the best functioning of the existing economies are hybrid or 'mixed' economies where there are both capitalism and socialism. These mixed economies consist of both private companies and government/state-owned entities, and both public & private entities have control of owning, making, selling, and exchanging goods in the country. (A big "Yes" to socialized medicine! The U.S. medical system is an national disgrace. Universal access for anyone and everyone to purchase Medicare would be a good start at reform.)

Corruption is a tough nut to crack as it always seems to accompany the handing over to people greater responsibilities and control over greater amounts of wealth. Ironically, Cuba probably has the least government corruption of any nation that i'm familiar with because getting caught being involved with corruption there is a public disgrace for both the guilty party and his/her family. Meaning it's less by fear of punishment and more by fear of public humiliation that corruption is kept at bay in Cuba.

The countries in which i have lived, both in Asia and Latin America, are just like the U.S. in that corruption of politicians & government officials is just a given and people seem to accept it as inevitable/unchangeable. Of course, you've also got the element of American people in total denial who will say things like "Corruption? What corruption? We don't have corruption in our government!"



Messenger: Nesta1 Sent: 12/7/2018 1:06:03 PM
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The commentary below (written by a commenter on Quora) just resonated with me so well that i had to reproduce it here. I&i reminded so much of my career in Babylon busy-ness (i.e., consulting environmental engineering) when i used to meld the Teachings of JAH with the work we were doing as best as I&i could (at least i wasn't building weapons for the Death Machine). i'd say to my colleagues, "no matter how low and despicable the dirty tricks of our competition are, we will stick to the high road and continue to even work harder on delivering high quality services and adhering to the highest ethical standards". Even people in my own company thought i was crazy (or naive) at times but guess what? Our business unit was consistently and sustainably the highest revenue achiever and most profitable for the two decades that i was its manager. And cut throat competitors kept losing to us. China is using the same "take the high road" approach in dealing with the dirty tricks of a jealous and amoral competitor and i'm certain will reap the same benefits that we did - only in China's case it isn't driven by JAH Teachings but simply by thousands of years of Confucian wisdom.

It should go without saying that my excitement over China's economic rise, which is pulling million of people in developing nations (not just China) out of poverty, does not constitute an endorsement of any of China's bad deeds or abuses of human rights. It would seem unnecessary to point that out, but at least one person on this forum is so obsessed with interpreting ANY positive comment about China's activity as a blanket approval of everything it does, that i do need to clarify even the obvious.

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QUORA: "Should China abandon its Made in China 2025 plans to avoid stepping on the USA?"

COMMENT:
America sucker-punches a major trade partner (China). China then - instead of doing an ‘Uncle Sam’ and melting down into a combination tantrum/roid-rage conniption - straightens its tie and suit-jacket and says “That’s disappointing. I thought better of you. Please refrain from embarrassing and hurting yourself in an effort to extort hard-earned yuan from our hard-working workers. If you try taking rice from their bowl and milk from their babies it won’t go well for you.” China did exactly the right thing in these circumstances. Knowing its own strength and the attitudinal sea change in the global community it knew it would benefit more in the big picture and long term from ‘not loosing its sh*t’.
America’s self-absorption tends to reduce the rest of the world to a background blur. China, while focused on translating international trade relations into fast and sustainable improvements in the average citizen’s quality of life, disposable income, and thus ability to contribute more to the cycle of economic growth, has looked for under-served markets - offering infrastructure that catalyses growth in emerging economies. Companies like Huawei commit to creation of a needed support system - and then sell quality smart-phones at enticing price-points. It’s the same with other essentials like road and rail systems - and electrification - as examples. While ‘Made in China’ ‘dollar store’ consumer goods have become an increasingly vital part of low income Americans’ efforts to make their income go far enough - those same goods are within reach of households in those emergent economies as their disposable incomes rise. Add to these factors an accelerating increasing E.U. demand for Chinese manufacture - and China’s dependence on American consumer demand is rapidly waning. And with major American brand names dependent on Chinese manufacture to satisfy shareholder demand for an impressive return on their investment while remaining competitive with foreign offerings America’s big brands have more to lose as Trump bollixes-up delicately contrived and painstakingly nurtured synergies and interdependence on which 21st century profitability rely.
TrumpAmerica has plummeted so low in global esteem while China’s has risen that China effectively shrugging ‘Whatever’ to American petulance raises PRC prestige in populations on every continent. America reneged on the Iran nuclear nonproliferation contract painstakingly negotiated by all the nations on the U.N. Security Council - negotiations that began under President Bush (the younger) and was secured just prior to the end of President Obama’s tenure - a decade of dedication by a bunch of nations that secured an Iranian agreement to cease R&D on nuclear weapons. America reneged. Welshed on it. And drove the wedge even deeper between America and the friends it abuses - that has them stepping away from America and regrouping alone. Just as they did when America backed out of the Climate deal. Also, China, Japan, and South Korea have fast-tracked the creation of their own free trade area (sure to have other neighbouring (ASEAN nations lining up to sign up). And the PRC is making overtures to and friends of the E.U. - saying “we can work together to build a successful and sustainable global economic community". China’s idea asserts that trade and mutual interdependence is the best, really the only, way our shared futures can be secured and sustained.
The only people who want China to roll over and surrender to American wishes are Americans. They are alone in their desire - as they’ve chosen to be. That is what ‘isolationism’ does. And that is even more so what the current American version of isolationism does. If China were to cave to American bullying they’d lose globally. All China need do effectively supplant America as the heart of the global community is stand tall and firm, wipe Trumps spittle away, and keep on doing the things most of us appreciate - provide goods at the right price-point - and resist American efforts at coercion.



Messenger: The BANNED -- Hemphill Sent: 3/22/2019 2:12:13 PM
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Demonstrators have rallied in Turkey over the plight of China's ethnic minorities

Istanbul (AFP) - For Muslims in China's re-education camps, indoctrination starts with early morning patriotic songs and sessions of self-criticism, and often ends with a meal of only pork, according to one exiled former detainee.

UN experts say China holds one million Muslims in camps in the heavily policed Xinjiang region where most of the country's ethnic Uyghur, the largest Muslim minority, live.

Beijing has rejected the accusations and says it runs education training centres as part of its fight against Islamist extremism in the Muslim-majority region.

The sites are a kind of "campus", according to China's Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs Le Yucheng speaking last week.

For Omir Bekali, an ethnic Kazakh who says he spent several weeks in a camp in Karamay in Xinjiang before fleeing to Turkey a year ago, it was more about trauma than education.

The camps had only one objective, he said, to strip detainees of their religious belief.

"Every morning, at 0700 to 0730, we had to sing the Chinese national anthem. We sang together, 40 or 50 people, facing the wall," Belaki told AFP, recalling the scene in his modest Istanbul apartment.

"I never really wanted to sing, but because of the daily repetition, it sinks in. Even a year later, the music is still resonating in my head," he said, adjusting the traditional patterned cap worn by Kazakh men.

- Eat pork, speak Chinese -

Born in Xinjiang to ethnic Uyghur and Kazakh parents, Bekali like many minorities from China, left for Kazakhstan in 2006 to look for work. There, he got Kazakh nationality.

His troubles began in March 2017 when he was arrested in Xinjiang after he returned on a business trip for his Kazakh travel agency.

After spending seven months in prison on charges of aiding "terrorism", he was sent to a re-education camp.

Among the obligations for detainees of all ages he says was to eat pork on Fridays, which is a holy day for Muslims. Consumption of pork is prohibited by Islam's religious restrictions.

He said the "students" -- as officials called them -- were also forbidden to speak a language other than Chinese and to pray or grow a beard, which authorities interpreted as a sign of religious radicalisation.

Bekali said he was able to leave after nearly two months in the camp, he believes, because of an intervention by Kazakhstan authorities.

The former detainee has been visiting overseas conferences to tell his story as one of the few survivors able to speak out. Most prefer to keep quiet, for fear of endangering their loved ones in China.

Bekali has no news of his parents and his three brothers and sister, who remain in China. After being released, he left Kazakhstan to settle in Turkey with his wife and children. He said he wanted to "put more distance" between himself and China.


Messenger: Nesta1 Sent: 3/22/2019 8:47:18 PM
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Man, I can relate. When I was a kid in the public schools of Los Angeles County, California they used to force us to recite a patriotic oath and sing a patriotic song each morning before classes in 'how to be a good citizen of Babylon' began. And the slop they served in those cafeteria lunches, OMG, you don't even want to know how hideous that stuff was!


Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 3/23/2019 8:13:50 AM
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Revolutionary Scientific Socialism is the way to liberation for the black race to defeat white supremacy's capitalism

As reflected by the works of the Great Nkrumah


Messenger: Nesta1 Sent: 3/23/2019 10:49:18 PM
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It does make one wonder when humans will achieve a raised level of consciousness that is commensurate with all of the science & technology they possess.


Messenger: The BANNED -- Hemphill Sent: 5/3/2019 12:03:37 PM
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Not chatting with your neighbours? Rights group discovers harmless activities that are enough to imprison Uighur Muslims

Giving cash to mosques, failing to chat to to neighbours, and walking in public without authorisation have been revealed as the seemingly mundane reasons for police investigations of Muslims in west China’s Xinjiang region.

Human Rights Watch (HRW) made changes to a police app to reveal the scores of seemingly lawful acts that officers record on phones then link to a mass surveillance database.

The United Nations believes at least a million Muslims in the vast region have been detained by Chinese authorities in “re-education” centres.

Beyond the detainment camps, many Xinjiang citizens are believed to be under house arrest or barred from entering public spaces. The app can track individuals’ movements and alert officers when they enter public spaces without permission.

Other “suspicious” behaviour listed includes giving petrol to friends, but also failing to “socialise with neighbours”. Further red flags include collecting “money or materials for mosques with enthusiasm”, getting a new phone number, and using “abnormal” amounts of electricity.

Police are prompted to check if citizens use foreign messaging apps such as WhatsApp and Telegram, which are harder for authorities to monitor and censor than domestic apps. HRW said that using such apps has resulted in individuals being detained in Xinjiang.

The findings fit a pattern of Muslims being held in prison-like venues in Xinjiang, which Beijing claims are “re-education” or “vocational” centres, for making simple gestures of religious faith.


Long beards and religious names for children have been banned there, with China’s communist government saying that draconian surveillance and security measures in place are to quell terrorism threats. Protests and violence in Xinjiang’s capital city Ürümqi in 2009 helped spark the crackdown.

HRW’s report showed that police log information about individuals on the app, which was engineered by the China Electronics Technology Group Corp. It connects with China’s Integrated Joint Operations Platform: a mass surveillance system including ubiquitous cameras and checkpoints that effectively make Xinjiang a police state.

Yaqiu Wang, China researcher at HRW, called the app findings, “Really, really frightening, for the Muslim minorities in Xinjiang, and also for the future of humanity.” There are fears that it could be rolled out across China.

Maya Wang, HRW senior researcher and author of the report, said: “Our research shows, for the first time, that Xinjiang police are using illegally gathered information about people’s completely lawful behaviour – and using it against them.” She said the app was further evidence that “severe abuses” were taking place.

UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres reportedly told Chinese President Xi Jinping that “human rights must be fully respected in the fight against terrorism” last week. HRW has criticised Mr Guterres for not tackling the issue with enough urgency.


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