Use the drop-down boxes above to navigate through the Website  
Return to Reasoning List

Here is a link to this page:

participate in their system

1 - 1011 - 2021 - 29
Time Zone: EST (New York, Toronto)
Messenger: gideon Sent: 9/20/2004 10:58:40 AM

Why not participate in their systems? Why not vote? A man can do a lot of good by running for office in their system.
I am not saying that we should depend on the systems they have, like ignorant people do. I am saying that we can do good using those systems.
A man and his friends decide to start up an institution and they call it by a name, and they do certain things together as a group in the name of this instituion. That's life. I see the US federal govt. the same way as I see any other group of people. I judge it according to its actions, and that is the only way I judge it.
The reason many people reject these systems is because of the harms people do using those systems, and because of the many lies that people tell about the systems to get support. But the system itself is not to blame. A system is a tool.
When people organise together and specify a program or system they are creating a tool that unites their actions. Tools are used to increase power. This is not a bad thing in itslef but it can be used for good or bad.
If a system exists and we refuse to participate because people are using it for evil, that doesn't make sense. Destroying the tool is not the best answer. It is better to take the tool out of the hands of wicked forces and use it for good.
Note that these systems exist because of the support of the people. It is a good thing for people to unite their forces and support systems, but people are confused. It is our job to maintain the unity that already exists while putting the power into suitable hands so that the tools can be used for good.
The only reason these forces exist is because people believe them to be good. People will support what they think is best. Since liars have power by tricks, it is a easy thing for good people to cause the truth to be known so that the liars lose power. It is not necessary to destroy the system itself.

Today, I am offered citizenship by a certain entity that calls itself a government of a nation. I refuse citizenship because I do not agree with the policies of that entity. But I am not agaist the concept of such an entity.
For this reason silence alone on my part is not sufficient. I have been offered a place in their institution and my silence is taken by most people as consent. It is expedient for me to speak up and say why I will not accept citizenship and how I stand relative to their system. I will say that I accept the priveleges they offer, because I want the power to do good and the priveleges they offer amount to power for me. However I must stress that my acceptance of these priveleges does not mean that I agree with the institution itslef. What I agree with is the sovereign power of man. And if men come together and form a group and invite me to weild power I accept even though I don't like the group itself. And I am not subject to the group in any way. I just use it like any tool.
I still am free to break their policies (so-called laws) as I see fit. I am a free man. And at times I will co-operate with them and at other times I may find it necessary to lie to them, hide from them etc.

Messenger: SisMenenI Sent: 9/21/2004 1:51:01 AM

A very good book I recommend to the I: Behold A Pale Horse By: William Cooper.

This would explain much of why InI don't deal with their system.
More Guidance and love

Messenger: gideon Sent: 9/28/2004 2:53:05 PM

I see that the system we talk about made money and we participate in that system sometimes. And they made titles for property, which we participate in. Of course, we participate because it's in our interest to do so and not necessarily because we support the system itself.
So why is voting or campaigning different?
If someone refuses to vote because they disagree with the system then they should refuse all participation for the same reason, including dealing with their money etc.

Messenger: the rock Sent: 9/28/2004 7:18:53 PM

I Give thanks to the one, liveing GOD JAHRASTAFARI,Ever BREATHING Ever Sure Selassie I

I want to give a point and although I use Ras Tafari to show that my point is truth, its something I have always known. The way that Americans or just the people in general conduct themselves as a community or goverment did not come from the devil or one race of people it came from so called discovery of lost tribes of people and so on. In this time I see people that have taken these sayings or these ways that other societys made and built the last
Babylon. American people come from all over the world. White Amercia is run things from the one side to the other side I don't see voteing stopping the way that things are ran. I don't believe that the Greed that is in these people is going to Change. They give you law and fine you if you don't follow it. That is like having another God, thier church is court, one that if you don't pay the fine you get your privlages taken away. So how can this work, for rasta,I get some money I pay Cesar his dues and live INNA right way. That is the only I can live in this system. Now the way I say its truth by bringing Ras TAfari up is by showing how at the end of his time of working, HIM told the league of nations that they are no good use in His own words.I do not believe that any polition is going to stop the way things are headed. These things that are happpening right now is prophecy and if you can servive then you can SEE the truth for your self.
Every man can vote or do what he/ she want to do thats just the way I look at it.

One Love

Messenger: gideon Sent: 9/29/2004 1:50:24 PM

Those who hold power in that system are there because of the will of the people. People support that government because they believe it is the right thing to do.
We all on this forum agree that the govt. is evil. So how is it that people believing that they are doing the right thing end up doing the wrong thing? It is because of misleaders who create illusions to confuse the people. We all know this........
So the people are united in the desire to do good. And they try todo the right thing and end up getting tricked by misleaders so that they end up doing the wrong thing. So basically someone voting in their system now has a choice between two wicked parties, so it does not make sense voting..... I am aware of this point.

However, we should look at this problem from the root of it. The root is that people are uniting in the desire to do good. It is lies of the misleaders that is stopping the people from achieving their desire of a good government. All it takes is for a true leader to speak the truth and let the people hear. When they hear good arguments and they re-evaluate what the misleaders have been doing they will realise that they have been tricked. Then they will stop supporting the misleaders because they will stop being tricked by the lies. Then they will support the truth. Let Israel's leaders arise!

Today the press runs the world, and they choose who will run the systems. But let the people who know the truth start campaigning by teaching others to discern the lies of misleaders, and the world will learn and the press will lose power to control minds. Note that HIM says that education is the foundation of progress.

We are not individuals without connections. Together we are a force that CNN and CBS cannot stand against for a minute. They have power today only because those who know the truth about what they are doing remain silent. Note again that HIM says, evil exists in society because of the inaction of those who should know better and the silence of the voice of justice.

So while Bush and Kerry are talking freely about their ideas, which are all lies, CNN and CBS are telling the people how they should interpret what's going on. And those who should rule the earth by right are silent. Rasta people are silent. So naturally evil continues because of our silence.
So Rock is right. People can vote if they want to. And people can campaign if they want to. And whoever takes the initiative and does something meaningful will have power. And if the righteous continue to be silent things will continue as they are and get worse, because the misleaders will continue to have power. It's that simple.
Now, I am not trying to belittle the great works ones are doing as INI speak words of truth in the street about Africa and so on. All rases are the salt of the earth and I love it. Big up!
All I am saying is that we can do more. At present we are not weilding power to our full potential. But the misleaders are doing the best they can. So how can we turn the tables unless we step up our game?
It is true that one man cannot make a difference, but there are enough of us now to unite and act.

Messenger: the rock Sent: 9/29/2004 2:52:36 PM

All good truth that you spreak,each time that him said worte a speach it had a time line.If ypu look you can see from the time that HIM was crowned to the time that Ethiopian was lost.From the beggining him speaches start out by tell people to change with the rest of the world goverments,then him said that they are liear and our only hop ist he most high.Each person that is on the campian ballet is speading 10s of millions daollars to tell the people that they need them to run the counrty better.If you take all the the commercials and all the press,Speachs and the party,take that number and times it by 50 you could have taken that time and money and save live you selfs (thats at lest 500million.)how got that kind of money,bill coby.I don't know his number nore do i think he or anyone would give that much money to the hungry and needy,with out hopes of getting something back.And that is what you call power(moeny).But i think that you have a stong mind and i look forward to have more reasoninf with you.


Messenger: the rock Sent: 9/29/2004 3:03:37 PM


Hope you can read throw all the miised speilled words.

Messenger: gideon Sent: 10/1/2004 3:50:14 PM

This is a message for all rasta people, because I know that after a tool has been used against someone that person would hesitate to take up that same tool and use it for their own uses.
Rock, I hope that after you argue so strong against what I am saying that if you come to see with me that you will argue just as strong on my side....
So here is the reasoning:
The system is a fraud, no doubt. But the effects of what people do when they follow the system are real, creation. That is not a fraud. I don't care about the system itself but I am very interested in what people do, because people are the ones who decide what happens in creation.
The point is that almost everybody in the world believes in the system, and they follow it in their daily lives. That means that if someone wants to lead people to do something good the easiest way to lead these people is by using the system.
Think of it like a train going in the wrong direction, and all the people on the train end up going in the wrong direction because they choose to stay on the train. If you want all the people to go in the right direction then the best thing to do is turn the train around. If not, the only thing to do is destroy the train, and that is a step backwards.
Note that a system is not a bad thing in itself. But it can be used for good or for bad. I am well aware that Cosby and others are selfish, but that is not the fault of the system. It is the fault of the people who are using the system. Again, the system is not a bad thing.
Or if you prefer me to say it this way... The system is bad now, but it can become good if good people take control of it instead of leaving it in the hands of confused people like Cosby, Bush etc.
The system is simply a way of people uniting together to benefit from collective security.
If you are against the system itself then you should be against words because of people using words for evil, and you should be against beauty because some people use it for evil, and basically you would be against mankind in general, because men do evil. It is negative thinking. I won't say anything else until Ark makes a comment, because I know he is much respected here... for good reason.

In response to Rock last comments: I am aware that all the people presently on campaign ballots are wicked. But anyone can start a campaign. We do not have to choose from the existing campaigns, because we can support any party we choose and we can found a party ourselves.

Messenger: the rock Sent: 10/1/2004 3:57:36 PM

"Rock, I hope that after you argue so strong against what I am saying that if you come to see with me that you will argue just as strong on my side....'

I am not into the arueing thing.I was just posting my opinion.Is there any other way to reason, you post something then i post something.This not my wed site it is ArkI,so if you are just talking to him i will respect that.


Messenger: gideon Sent: 10/1/2004 4:06:22 PM

Arguement - Persuasive declaration of an opinion.
Argue - Declare or assert an opinion.

1 - 1011 - 2021 - 29

Return to Reasoning List

Haile Selassie I