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? about ital and unnatural food and drinks ?

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Messenger: maurice leblanc Sent: 2/4/2010 7:18:26 PM
Reply

I was reading about the rastafarian worldview in general.
Then i arrived at a chapter about ital food.
It says here:
"They drink anything that is herbal, such as tea, but liquor, coffee, milk and soft drinks are viewed as unnatural".
Now, can anybody give me a good explanation why liquor, coffee and milk are considered unnatural/unclean/not ital?
After all i know that liquor (made from cassava and other plant's parts; i'd be interested in the traditional african liquor production since i can't recall the plants' names right now) plays an important role in african vodun rituals (as sacrifices).
Also many "tribal societies"/native tribes in africa made or still make use of alcohol in a spiritual manner.
And as liquor is a product from processing parts of a plant, how can it then be "unnatural"?
Milk (from cows and goats) is also used quite commonly in africa.
Rastafaris seem to prefer coconut milk instead of mammal milk.
But afaik coconut trees don't grow (naturally) in africa.
As milk is the natural product of a mammal, how can it be "unnatural"?
Tea is in general a dried part of a plant that is prepared with hot water for drinking.
The tea plant and the usage of tea originated from asia.
And afaik tea has not been popular in the world, or africa in specific until colonial trading allowed it to be cultivated in modern times.
Coffee is the roasted seed of the coffee plant which natural habitat is africa.
The ritualistic use of coffee can be historically traced to ethiopia (the "rastafarian paradise on earth") and the arabic red sea region.
So, as the coffee bean is a natural product and has been used by africans for ages, how can it be "unnatural" then?
As not being a rastafari follower myself, all of the above seems not to make any sense to me,
because the above dogmas seem to be negating african history and culture to a large extent.
Especially if you look at the ever-praised usage of "ganja"/marijuana and consider the fact, that marijuana has not been grown or used in a spiritual way in large parts of ancient africa at all.
Now, that is not to state that i support the prohibition of marijuana, but rather to say that i think large parts of the rastafarian dogma seems to be based on wrong facts.

If anyone is able to enlighten me on this subject, i'd be very glad.
The answers from yahoo answers have been very unsatisfactory.
Please don't troll or flame, let's stick on the topic.
Thank you in advance.


Messenger: Eleazar Sent: 2/4/2010 7:29:50 PM
Reply

"As not being a rastafari follower myself, all of the above seems not to make any sense to me,
because the above dogmas seem to be negating african history and culture to a large extent."

That says it all right there. You don't have a proper overstanding of RasTafarI; its not about any kind of "dogma".

Don't base your view of RasTafarI on some book; especially if the author of this book is not Rasta. What is the name of this "book" you are basing your opinions off of.

In regards to alcohol, yes it has been traditionally drunk by just about every culture in history. The reason why I and I RasTafarI generally stay away from alcohol is because it weakens Our Spiritual powers, is unhealthy, and intoxication can lead to further destructive behaviors.

Ever read the scriputure "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." Proverbs 20:1




Messenger: Eleazar Sent: 2/4/2010 7:44:00 PM
Reply

"Especially if you look at the ever-praised usage of "ganja"/marijuana and consider the fact, that marijuana has not been grown or used in a spiritual way in large parts of ancient africa at all.
Now, that is not to state that i support the prohibition of marijuana, but rather to say that i think large parts of the rastafarian dogma seems to be based on wrong facts."

I disagree with this assertion, many African cultures have used marijuana. It may not be as well documented as say Indian culture's use of marijuana, but Africans have used it throughout history. Many associate Cannabis with India, because the Indians were the one who brought that plant to Jamaica when they worked as laborers for the British.

Here is just One example of African use of Cannabis:

A Historical Tradition

The first historical record of cannabis in what is now Lesotho dates back to the 16th century. According to historian Stephen Gill, oral tradition has handed down the story of a "colonizing" use of marijuana by the Koena people. The Koena group moved from the northeast of what is now Mpumalanga province (the former Orange Free State) and settled in Lesotho around 1550 (thereby becoming one of the ethnic components of the Basotho group today) by "purchasing" land from San tribes (the earliest inhabitants of South Africa, better known today as "Bushmen") in exchange for marijuana. It is nevertheless very likely that the San knew and used cannabis long before the Koena arrived, these latter simply providing it in great quantity. Furthermore, Gill notes that in the nineteenth century - shortly after the bases of the Kingdom of Lesotho were firmly established by King Moshoeshoe I and the local populations began to depend more on agriculture than on livestock - marijuana figured among the main staples grown in Lesotho, along with sorghum, gourds, and beans.

This historical background suggests why matekoane is now one of the seven plants most often cited by mountain dwellers for their curative and magic qualities. Rural people still use marijuana to treat ailments like heartburn, high blood pressure, and "nerves". It is also used to rid horses and donkeys of parasitic worms (papisi in Sesotho). Two of the six OGD-growers also claimed to smoke marijuana in order to "get strength" and work harder, one of them saying that it stimulated his appetite. According to other sources questioned by the OGD (a psychiatrist and members of a prevention/rehabilitation NGO), these two "utilitarian", or functional, properties are ascribed to matekoane by a high proportion of users throughout Lesotho, both urban and rural.


Messenger: maurice leblanc Sent: 2/4/2010 8:48:04 PM
Reply

--That says it all right there. You don't have a proper --overstanding
--of RasTafarI; its not about any kind of "dogma".

You are correct, and as you noticed i have admitted that i don't have a proper understanding, which is the reason why i ask these questions in the first place.

The prohibition of certain ingredients such as milk, coffee, salt and liquor reminds me of the jewish tradition of eating kosher food or the muslim version of not consuming "haram" ingredients, which has from my understanding no other use than an identity-establishing.

"Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, ideology or any kind of organization: it is authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted or diverged from."

And thus is considered dogmatic.


--Don't base your view of RasTafarI on some book; especially if the --author of this book is not Rasta. What is the name of this "book" --you are basing your opinions off of.

Why shouldn't i base my opinion on books, when you quote the bible?
Here's the link if you are interested:
http://www.ve.org.za/index.php/VE/article/viewFile/199/153

--Ever read the scriputure "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: --and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." Proverbs 20:1

Ok, there's a point.
But the bible contradicts itself then:

"May God give you of heaven's dew
and of earth's richness—
an abundance of grain and new wine."

or

"Give beer to those who are perishing,
wine to those who are in anguish;
let them drink and forget their poverty
and remember their misery no more."

or

"Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with
a joyful heart, for it is now that God favors what you do."

etc.
The bible says good as well as bad (e.g. Noah) things about wine.

Rambling about all the above still leaves my original questions unanswered.


Messenger: maurice leblanc Sent: 2/4/2010 8:56:27 PM
Reply

thank you eleazar about that history lesson.

so. now i know more about ganja and still i don't know about milk and coffee and liquor (and salt).

generally it comes down to that i sympathize with about 65% of rastafarism if there weren't these strange rules...

and i also wonder if prohibiting these things, isn't there the possibility of it having negative effects on nutrition and health?

according to scripture:

"I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food."


Messenger: Ark I Sent: 2/4/2010 9:30:18 PM
Reply

Milk is natural for a baby cow, not humans. Coffee causes people to be tired when they are not drinking it, and causes them to need it for alertness. Alcohol holds down people's Spiritual powers, especially wine.

Not all RasTafarI people are that strict about any of those drinks and some just make sure they limit the use of them.

I and I are not suggesting you or anybody else to eat or drink this or that. The way RasTafarI people Live is because that is I and I Trod. It was the same in old times, not everbody had the same restrictions as the Hola Ones who are separated unto Jah.


Messenger: Ark I Sent: 2/4/2010 9:36:41 PM
Reply

You said

-----------------------------
generally it comes down to that i sympathize with about 65% of rastafarism if there weren't these strange rules...
-----------------------------

I and I are not looking for sympathy. RasTafarI isn't an ism or a Trod where people become One because they agree with it. RasTafarI people are RasTafarI because that is who I and I are.


Messenger: Ark I Sent: 2/4/2010 9:55:43 PM
Reply


When I said,
------------------
RasTafarI isn't an ism or a Trod where people become One because they agree with it.
------------------

Don't take that as meaning I and I don't agree with I and I Trod. It is not about agreement or disagreement, as I said, it is who I and I are.


Messenger: maurice leblanc Sent: 2/4/2010 10:06:37 PM
Reply

well...

--Milk is natural for a baby cow, not humans.

And fish is natural for... shark only?

--I and I are not suggesting you or anybody else to eat or drink this --or that. The way RasTafarI people Live is because that is I and I --Trod.

what is "trod"?

--not everbody had the same restrictions as the Hola Ones who are --separated unto Jah.

does that imply rastas aren't that equal amongst themselves after all?
the priesthood?

--I and I are not looking for sympathy. RasTafarI isn't an ism or a --Trod where people become One because they agree with it. RasTafarI --people are RasTafarI because that is who I and I are.

Don't you think sympathy makes life a little bit nicer?
I should have known you don't like to be called an ism...

I am sorry if i sound offensive or rude,
but english isn't my primary language.


Messenger: Ark I Sent: 2/5/2010 1:20:30 AM
Reply

You misunderstood what I said. All RasTafarI are Hola Ones separated unto Jah. I was saying that in old times as now RasTafarI people have Trod (walked,lived) differently than other people who have not separated themselves unto Jah. I wasn't speaking about the specific drinks you brought up, I was speaking in general about the various things that are different.

There are various levels of strictness, but there are many things that are common to all RasTafarI.

I really don't have much else to say to you about this. I am not here to convince people of I and I ways. Those kind of things are just distractions to I and I , and I have wasted enough time in the past on such distractions. I people know who they are without anybody convincing them of anything.

I and I don't join RasTafarI, I and I are RasTafarI. It is people who join things that require convincing, RasTafarI know who they are without even speaking to another One who is RasTafarI.




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