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death penalty

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Messenger: christof Sent: 4/3/2004 4:09:46 PM

Blessed Love

I have some problems to really overstand certain passages of
the book Leviticus in the bible. I do not know if the name is the same in English, it is the 3rd book of the 5 books of Moses.
I think the law that is givin to Moses by the Most High JAH is very important for every Rasta. It is an eternal guide to life and happiness. JAH has given it to Moses and it is written in the bible so InI can read it and follow JAH.

But there are some passages where some kind of cruelty shines through. I can`t get the meaning of this passages. Espacially I mean

Levitikus 20 - here certain thinks are explained under the title " people who do this deserv to die" ...

Levitikus 20, 27 - even says that people should kill others by throwing stones on them until they die

Levitikus 21,9 Instructs to burn a priest`s daughter if she behaves in a certain way

But all these kind of death penaltys are really cruel and they don`t go together with humanity to my mind. They rather sound like man-made laws of that time to me than like the words of the Allmighty One.

Does the I think Jah really told the people to use death penalty ? Because it is part of the law given to Moses - it is in the scriptures !? If the I considers this parts to be man-made, the whole idea of the law to come from Jah directly is called into doubt.

One Love ! Jah Guidance !

Messenger: the rock Sent: 4/3/2004 7:24:01 PM

what do you think?
iman know that when i look at christ him say a new way of liveing has come that to which one live by the law of JAH not man...MOST HIGH PRAiSE TO IAM IAM JAH RAS TAFRINI.


Messenger: Nefertiti Sent: 4/3/2004 9:33:24 PM

SELAH, Ras Rock....Give thanks and praises to the most high Haiel I Sealssie I JAH Rasta Far I for those words....

WHen INI JAH, under no man laws.......Jah did not have a set of rules and regulations when Jah created....Man is questing to OVERSTAND then LIVE and WISE UP to the organic nature of spirit of JAH.

OH how blessed to given thanks and praises to the most high
teh giver of life and breathe
the creator of all perfect love
the spirit who withholds nothing and blesses with all
beyond i mind
beyond I thoughts


Messenger: ijah Sent: 4/4/2004 3:19:45 PM




JAH is love,but JAH can be cruel too.
You did mention those laws,but didnt ye know/read about them plagues etc etc...Joshua,and more of them fieldfighters..didnt ye read about them victorys,??which holds that their enemy`s were being caught and slaughtered...thru the Power of The Most High!

It was JAH whom made it rain for 40 days and nights,when all living creatures pon surface of the Earth were consumed by the water,except Noah and his family and animals on the ark.Powers of The Most High!!!

Ya see,JAH can be cruel too,but not without any reason.....
As a matter of fact we could say that He is very,very forgiving,cause if He would daily reward us people for our daily doings,only but a few people shall stand!!!..SO,Ini say Him CAN be cruel,and He has been before,and one time in future He will do so again:Thats why the teachings in the Holy Scripts and the teachings of His Majesty are
nessecarry fe guidance and reference to know what can be counted good and bad ,in JAH sight..To prevent InI becoming like heathen

Men that truly follow JAH,will be saved from His wrath,and unto to them strenght and pride,wisdom and overstanding will be given,and eternal life....


OneLove, JAH bless


Messenger: the rock Sent: 4/4/2004 4:44:53 PM

I thank you all for your words.

i think it is this way (for me) IJAH, the people who are not liveing in a natural way fight against the WAY Jah has things setup so as things go you get out what you put out(love and man goes to its own way, then what else happend but death, crulty, disease and famin. Christ Selassie I got the same spirit, teach the same thing. We dont live by the example of stoning someone to death to make the point of showing these people that they are living in the wrong manner. If I throw something at him its not for him to catch in the physical, in my case, but I man see what your sayin God seem to be cruel in a way if you think that everything which is harmony does not have coil and recoil force, it is the reaction of mans inability to conform to the order that Jah has naturally provided for him that cause it to rain upon him 40 days and 40 nights. If God did not give them warning then it would be cruel, but Jah speaks through a profit or profits who read the times. If the people would of heard im sure that the people would of built Arks themselves .. the people do not want to hear, people want to be deaf dumb and blind. InI is the light, if you deal with death that is your penalty.


Messenger: Ark I Sent: 4/4/2004 8:53:20 PM


The judges of that time were inspired by Jah, so their judgement was just. After some time, the people moved far from Jah, and the judges were no longer with Jah, so they judged unjustly. And notice that not all sins are spoken of with the punishment of being stoned. Many laws say that the people shall surely be put to death, but they don't specifically tell people to carry out the punishment of death. I sight those judgements as the natural movement for people that deal with wickedness, and not an order for others to kill them.

Notice the first part, in Leviticus 20

Leviticus 20
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
3 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.
4 And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not:
5 Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.

This is speaking about a person sacrificing their child by fire unto Molech. So this is a very serious sin, so the order is there to stone such people, because of their extreme wickedness. And in 4 and 5, it says that the people who hide their eyes from the man, and don't kill him, will be cut off. This is not said for any other sin, it is because of the wickedness and cruelty of this sin that it has been singled out in such a way, so that the people that know of it commit a sin if they don't act upon it.

Ark I
Haile Selassie I

Messenger: christof Sent: 4/5/2004 1:57:13 AM

Irie !
Give Thank to the I for the replies, they helped me a lot to know and overstand the meaning of the law. I like to share this conversation with the I because it really deep

I did not say that Jah himself is cruel for HE judges man. Because (like Anthony B says) so much damage is allready done. As a result there can only be justice and harmony if at the end of our times there is judgment, just as it is said in the revelation. So the I shouldn`t take revenge on our enemy because we know judgment will come to burn their wickedness, just as HIM told the people of Ithiopia not to take revenge on the fascist in their country after the end of the war. So I don`t consider this to be cruel. it would be cruel if there was no victory of good over evil.


I cannot understand why JAH directly instructs us to use death penalty, because this means to kill somebody. It seems contrary to the concept of Rasta as I overstand it somehow. If JAH wanted to judge HIM why couldn`t he do it without the help of another human being, because the people who stone someone to death will feel aggressions and feel ugly because they brutally kill someone - even if he is extremely wicked. The I see ? - I do not consider it to be cruel only because of the vitim of this death penalty, but I think it makes a society more self-righteous and aggressiv and brutal if the death penalty and even this extreme forms of it are used.
Furthermore Ark I sais that the judges of this time were just because they were inspired by JAH. This maybe true but I think the law comes from GOD so it is eternal and for every man and nation. So it is obvious, that in another time this laws must lead to unjust penalties. I consider them to be really strict anyway, for instance I do not think that a person who behaves really ugly and wicked towards its parents should get killed for that reason.
I would still find it difficult to explain to myself that God really instructed people to use this cruel ways of killing each other ( no matter how wicked the people who gut judged were) .

But the law is essential for every Rasta, I follow it the best I can, and I know especially the Bobo Ashanti follow the law literally because it is holy and it is given to us by the Allmighty JAH. They follow every rule concerning food, sex, hair, pureness, the Sabbath - but do they also consider the law (!) to use death penalty to come directly from JAH - this would mean they would have to follow this law and use death penalty ?!

What do you think about that incident described in the evangelion when people wanted to stone a woman and Yehoshua told them those who were without sin should through the first stone - accordingly they all went home and Yehoshua who truely is without sin did not kill the woman neither. So does the I think that the woman was not guilty and Yehoshua tried to save her from getting killed by an unjust use of the law, or does the I think that Yehoshua tried to show the people that this very part of the law concerning death penalty was wrongly delivered and they should not use it all ?? I an not sure how to interpret it !?

It is a petty but I had no chance to read the whole "Selected Speeches" of HIS MAJESTY yet - but perhaps the I can tell me :
Did Selassie I permit death penalty in the state of Ithiopia at all ? If not this would be another hint that this death penalty in the scriptures were man made - if it was in use in Ithiopia under his reign I had to think about the whole problem again and I would probably watch it from another perspective then.

JAH Guidance and Itection !

Messenger: Nefertiti Sent: 4/5/2004 12:16:02 PM

Blessed Love JAH RASTA FAR I,

Give thanks and praises to the most High, Haile I Selassie I. Blessed reasoning on the law of Moses which is outlined in the Penetuch torah

INI site that Moses(a man)is the one who interpreted what the I sited as the death penalty. Consider that when Jah created all nature Jah made no stipulations of laws, only that if the tree of knowledged was eaten from, man would die. Even when Cain killed Abel there was not a "law" that said that it was wrong, it was the self conviction of Cain that brought fear in the awareness of his death becuz of the knoweledge of the death that he brought forth to his brother. Jah did not strike him dead and in fact marked him so that no one else would kill him. Cain lived with the burden of shame of death. Lamech, his offsppring still did not overstand the awareness of life as he bragged about the "price" on his own head.

It is man's awareness of his power to end life that is the point of conviction. To be aware of the power of death yet not siting the inevitability of own death. The rational for the "death penalty" is the LAW.....But MAN invented law. The law was to convict not to direct. That is the thing that is so mixed up that MAN be LIEves he DIRECTS other man by domination through LAW, but actually convicts self.

Meanwhile the commandment is "do not kill".....PERIOD, so then why ordain killing under certain circumstances of retribution, war, etc.? Site the MIX UP? JAH Is NOT CRUEL, Man is cruel becuz he uses the knowledge of Jah with immature overstanding of the power to destroy himself. JAH does not destroy, becuz man will do that himself.

Bredrens and sistren, the laws do no make us righteous, NO, it is the precepts of INI that is within, not without. INI written upon I heart. Why did Moses smash the "laws" upon the rocks? The laws did not stop what wickedness man had in mind.

The reason that killing goes on and on is because as shown so often in the testement the grudge continues on and on through generations that MAN feels must be "PAID". No man can redeem the life of another man, and that is the base of JAH. Jah does not stop anyone from taking the life of tha cruel? Jah gave INI free will to utilize the source that JAH created I. Me, he, she u and they have the CHOICE on how to handle that immense power...and me, u she, he and they take the conseqencses of that. If it bedifferent that would make Jah partial to this or that.

JAH gave INI power to Create and that is the awesomeness of INI. Many don't site that becuz they have made an idol of Jah of himself as a destroyer.

Moses law "allowed" for man to kill by its very thought of killing and subseqeuential eye for eye. Is that the precept in the I? Remember at the same time that when I took of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, I will die. It does not say how nor does it say just says it is so.

Moses intention I site was to set a law to help ones overstand what he sited, yet ones did not site the root of thier self and so it did not do much except to create JUDGES of man and the law.....which is separate from JAH. JAH blesses all of I-ration with the same knowledge and it is man who must overstand that and site JAH within. The so called "law" is written on the heart.

The death penalty is made by man. JAH does not kill, jah creates. Jah does not destroy, Man does. Jah does not convict, man does. JAH let man define death anyhow becuz it did not exist in the creation. Jah is the creator of all of that is natural and organic, balanced in earth wind water and fire. Day follows night and follows day and season folowd season follows season....THer is no end nor beginning.

In man's selfishness to try to control nature he is more concerned with avoiding death than siting LIFE. Hence he brings forth his own death through his fear. FEAR is what caused Cain to kill Abel, fear of his own inadequecies, not becuz of anything Abel did. That was the choice of Cain that man continues to carry out today. Adam and Eve story of "death " is that the shame they felt in knowing what they lost and would not regain. ATTACHEMENT TO THE FLESH.

INI don't site any death penalty, If that is what any man want to do for whatever reason, that is what man will reap. If someone kills and it make someone else a "victim" and the "victim" feel by killing again is "justified" in thier human mind that is them, not INI. That is of the flesh, not of the spirit. The spirit like a thought manifests in the flesh, but it is not the kill the flesh, it does not destroy the spirit.


When the I can answer that, then the I will be free from the law of man.

KNOW yourself. KNOW INI, KNOW JAH BE ONE with teh Creator. Be the creator.

BLessed Love Jah rasta far I

Haile I Selassie I

Messenger: Bro Jahphet Anbesa I Sent: 4/5/2004 3:57:56 PM

Greetings I

Yes man...
I know about them things inna the Mose books.
And I also know about Chrsitīs teachings!
He who is without sin throws the first stone! So who pon earth is without sin? HIM is the only Judge pon earth!

This reminds me on HIM Autobio where he tells about the death penalty inna Ethiopia.
In Ethiopia of the 19th and early 20th century it was common that the nearest relative of the victim kills the murderer. Everybody was able to watch it when the relative kills the murderer however he wants.
Selassie I changed this, now the death penalty was like this.... no audience, only one man with a special riffle who kills the murder.
So what do you think? Why didnīt Selassie abolish the death penalty.... wasnīt it he himself who taught the people only Jah can judge, only HE is without sin?

Bro Gad I

Messenger: the rock Sent: 4/5/2004 4:24:03 PM

InI is the light, if you deal with death that is your penalty.


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Haile Selassie I